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Tracking a $20M Install: The Architect Shuts Down

Those of you already crying "train wreck" will love this chapter.


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Follow Abacus Prime’s quest to design a $500,000 system for this 28,000-square-foot home in Paradise Valley, Ariz.

CE Pro is documenting the ups and downs of this ambitious $20 million, 28,000-square-foot home installation.

Mark Sipe of Abacus Prime LLC, who has been tasked with designing and managing the installation of the electronics, is looking for a CE pro to excel on the project. If you're interested, email Mark at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).

Here is the third installment of Sipe’s running commentary on the project. Good luck Mark!


Every project encounters obstacles. Combine that with an economy most of us have never seen in our lifetime, and things start to get interesting.

The economy hasn’t affected the job too directly, but it has definitely provided a punch in the head. It may turn out to be a blessing. We will just have to wait and see.

Let’s start with the normal headaches. It’s a solid concrete house with post tension slab. Right now it’s just a really big hole in the ground with the lower walls being formed area by area. When I signed on, I was assured we had plenty of room to run our wiring and that there were whole rooms put aside for electrical and low voltage.

But it looks like the electrical engineer didn’t talk to the mechanical engineer because when we finally saw the HVAC shop drawings, they had covered almost every bit of ceiling space in our “electrical room” with two layers of ducting, and the plumber added in roof drains and 3-inch water mains running right above the lighting panels.

The block outs we had installed in the concrete forms were taken over by mechanical, so we were left scrambling for options. The electrician on this project is one of the reasons I took the job so late in the design. He is always looking out for problems and has kept me informed on status and areas of concern.

We started to ramp up the number of conduits to key locations to see if we can build in some backup. In the lower floor below the slab we have added close to 40 2-inch and 3-inch conduits to key locations and will add almost as many in the upper and lower level slabs. These aren’t my main channels, just back up when we need something at a key location. The plan is to now drop the ceilings in areas where we run our wires and install a commercial type cable tray from one end of the home to the other.


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Article Topics

News · Installation · Installation · All topics

About the Author

Mark Sipe, System Designer
Mark has been both a commercial and residential integrator and systems engineer for over 25 years. He works with Builders, Homeowners and Architects to design and support all types of projects around the world. He is also a software developer (SalezToolz) and mad scientist/inventor (Xspot Products) all developed around what he saw as a need for the businesses he works with and supports. He has been a CEA Mark of Excellence judge the last 6 years and CE Pro Best awards Judge.

48 Comments (displayed in order by date/time)

Posted by sanfransoxfan04  on  02/08  at  03:13 PM

You integrators out there are probably used to encountering these curveballs thrown at you from customers, builders, contractors, architects etc.
But working for a manufacturer, I don’t always get to hear these tails from the trenches and find them very interesting.  Adds a new level of respect for what you all are doing out there. Thanks for sharing Mark, looking forward to the next installment.

Posted by Mark Sipe  on  02/08  at  06:22 PM

Wow, a positive comment.  We don’t get too much of that round these parts, thanks.
This series of articles was really about creating a space to talk about this and projects like it.  The problems I encounter are the same every other CI runs into on most jobs.  The issues get resolved but its nice to see how someone else handles these things and to hear from other dealers and what they might do.  For all the potential of the web we sometimes squander it on silliness and puffing up for the audience.

Posted by sanfransoxfan04  on  02/08  at  08:25 PM

Yeah well it was either post here or join the battle over on the iPad threads. I’m not an iPad fan so better focus my attention on something that does interest me.

Posted by DrFlick  on  02/09  at  08:18 AM

Mark,

I agree with the assessments of your situation.  What you are highlighting is something that, unfortunately, is pretty typical out in the field (just not quite as large a scale).  You’re having a positive attitude and keeping the vision moving forward despite the obstacles is commendable.

Much of the work we have been doing lately is coming in after things have been sold and designed a year ago that the integrator now has to make it work (and for the same budget).  There have been a ton of changes in the requirements, design, and available products.  Overcoming the immediate hurdles and having the final goal in mind is essential to success.  The best of luck!

I will throw my name into the fray as one to help evaluate where you are and where you need to go.  I am sure I will learn a lot along the way, too.


Regards,

  =D-

Derek R. Flickinger
Interactive Homes, Inc.

Posted by isf4hd  on  02/09  at  09:54 AM

Gary Reber from Widescreen Review would be a great member of your jury. He’s intimately familiar with all aspects of CI and is personally in the middle of his own “dream home” construction project.

Posted by joel degray  on  02/09  at  11:28 AM

As Mr. Spock said (I believe) to Mr. Savak in The Wrath of Kahn, “Sauce for the Goose”. But seriously, this is where the most experienced CI professional shine. There is a lot more to this than just being a technology guy, a design firm or a client rep. And why a BOM and a shopping list are the worst way to pick an installation company and the products to be used.

Posted by Mark Sipe  on  02/09  at  11:31 AM

Every project is a challenge and bigger projects are just bigger challenges.  The house will be built, systems will go in and the client will be happy in the end.  The only hard part is getting there.
Thanks for all the support, the tone has changed and based on all the email I get from this, there are some really great companies looking to lend a hand.

Posted by Mark Sipe  on  02/09  at  11:45 AM

Joel,

I have personally run dozens projects of this size with my own company and know how hard it can be given the scale.  The CI we chose will have the skill set and background to bring this project to closure.  Every client and project is different but experience always seems to make a difference.  The biggest challenge is committing to a HD distribution system with so many changes coming in the near future.  Everything else is pretty much in the box as far as overall design (just waiting on whomever is chosen to put their touch on it).

Posted by joel degray  on  02/09  at  03:32 PM

Yep- my point, a seasoned CI professional will rise to this challenge and others which can pop up along the way.
Fixture substitutions, new loads, out of date DWGs, furniture sketches which somehow show up after the equipment is delivered and so on. I don’t look at custom as In the box, more as how you can plan to put the above items back into the box.
Perhaps that’s just a different perspective with the same outcome.

Posted by Scott Moser  on  02/09  at  06:06 PM

Mark,
It is fun to read this. It’s a bit like reading an autobiography. Seasoning aside, I think it takes a special passion for large scale projects and a great ability to project and visualize.
Regards,
Scott

Posted by Mark Sipe  on  02/09  at  08:14 PM

Scott,

We’ve both seen our share of big projects like so many other integrators out there.  This has been a very interesting experiment in looking at our industry.  People who have read this aren’t looking at me as much as everyone who comments for good or bad.
If I was a homeowner this would raise more questions than answers about what I should do with my home.  There are so many great companies out there offering fantastic products for a good price who stand behind their systems, it can sometimes be hard to find them. 
I can’t say I’ve made it any easier but it isn’t over yet and we will just have to see how it ends.
Cheers,
Mark

Posted by Mark Sipe  on  02/10  at  08:18 AM

Last night I was contacted by a local dealer who is concerned that I am unfairly putting blame on the architect.
The architect is very good at design and has created a fabulous home and property design.  The client is pushing him on all sides to “get it done” beyond what can maybe even be considered reasonable, it’s what clients do.
The problem is an architect is the leader on these jobs because it is his vision we are following and if he doesn’t take control or have a way to make things work it affects all the subcontractors.  We are being asked to perform at a certain level while being compromised in other areas.  His skills are evident in the design but more leadership is required or everyone will do what is best for their job at the expense of others on the project.  I have a meeting next week with the owner and will address these issues, not something I look forward to but it has to be brought up.
Tired old saying but it usually applies, speed, price or quality, pick two.

Posted by Alan Poltrack  on  02/12  at  07:28 AM

A large project like this requires a huge level of experience and a top notch support staff.
My experience tells me that a $500,000 A/V budget is a drop in the bucket and is in no way enough money to complete a project of this magnitude. My understanding is that an A/V contractor has not been hired yet. This should tell the principals that they have to come up with more money to attract a top notch A/V contractor capable of undertaking this project.

Posted by Mark Sipe  on  02/12  at  08:36 AM

I have heard this a lot since we started this public project.  I just finished judging for the CEA Mark of Excellence awards and while there were some projects over a million most were UNDER $500,000 and still amazing systems in very large homes.  Throwing a number at a job without knowing the job shows a lack of understanding.  We can always spend more on a project, that’s easy with all the technology available.  To give a customer just what they want is a bigger challenge.

First we have to educate them on what’s available and then let them make choices.
I have had so many companies apply I haven’t even been able to respond to them all with more coming in everyday.  These are large well know groups who have worked on many projects of this size both local and out of state.  My favorites are the companies from England and Costa Rica, that travel might impact my budget.

I have been talking to local companies and plan on going through some homes next week to let the client make a final decision on products so we can choose a CI.

Comments like these could make consumers think this technology is out of reach and it isn’t at all.  So many great choices at so many price points to fit any budget and still have a great system.  We need to stop scaring people into spending more and instead offer them choices that fit them.  I hear the same two products over and over as if this is all there is at this level of house.  We only hurt ourselves and our industry by perpetuating these myths. 

Lots of great companies, offering lots of great choices that would fit any consumers home and budget, enough with the golden calves.

Posted by isf4hd  on  02/12  at  08:43 AM

I was also a judge for the CEA Mark of Excellence awards and agree with Mark that there were some entries that exhibited outstanding accomplishments by industry members who did amazing jobs of meeting all of their clents’ desires, needs and expectations (and, did it all within budget).

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