Tracking a $20M Install: Final 4 Integrators

Mark,

So based on this comment, “Control4 wasn’t even in the running until I had a chance to review where it was currently and where it was going.  Given what it can do today it would more than satisfy this client, looking ahead at what it will do down the road is just a perk.” did you look at what is down the road from the other companies?  It may work find currently, but if it wasn’t even a contender until you saw what they have coming means that you based your decision to go with them based on products that don’t exist.  I hope that you did the same with the other companies as I am sure that they all have stuff “coming down the road”.

This is really easy Mark, just explain to us why you influenced the project to go with with Control 4 over the other products available, especialy if someone offered them at the same price.  I don’t know why you want to keep it a seceret for why this project went this direction.  There are many Control 4 projects out there and I am sure if you asked the customer, or the dealer why they went with that product over something else they would be able to tell you and yet you continue to avoid the question.

I don’t really care what system the customer gets, but if you want to post this publicly for people to learn from then educate us and let us learn why you chose what you did.

OK guys, attack me all you want be leave others out of this.  I work with Ron at Firefly because he is one of the best there is.  So far as him leaving Crestron that is patently false.  Most of the work he does is for Crestron clients, he softly beat on me to go Crestron in this job.  His designers know most of our systems but he will be working directly with Control4 to ensure this project goes well.

I take full responsibility for this project and am pretty sure everyone reading this puts it square on my shoulders.
Too many fanboys are taking this as a “mine is better than yours” and expecting me to tell them why. 
I bring choices to the client and he makes decisions with input from me, sometimes he listens and sometimes he doesn’t.  If I thought we were heading for a train wreck I’d let him know.

Products are selected on best fit then offered to the client for a final choice.
I chose control based on the product today, the price and the culture of the company and people.  Everyone I met (I already knew some of them) was informative and supportive.  All things being equal don’t we all make a choice based on the people who we will be working with? 
Reading some of these comments makes me think I wouldn’t want to be on a job with some of these guys, also sure they wouldn’t want me working with them.
And waiting for me to trash one thing over another, you are going to be waiting a very long time.  I will keep this positive and let the ankle biters continue to scream into the wind.

Stuart,

Looks like your local here, so if you know about these systems maybe we should have you look at the project.  If it works when we finish it should only improve over time as it it “tweeked” for the clients lifestyle.

Mark

Mark,
please don’t take my posts the wrong way. I am genuinely curious to the success of C4 on a project such as this… Possibly when it is over i could definitely pick your brain on the pros and cons of using C4 in a large system.

I apologize if my remarks invoked any others. I am an industry veteran and applaud your courage to stay in a public forum.

i do not condone slamming remarks made by others…

I am a crestron guy through and through… but i can’t live without know what everyone else is doing… this is what makes me successful.

good luck!!! high five again!

Mark,

All things aren’t equal which is the reason for wanting to LEARN more about how the decision was made for the control system.  I am not asking you to TRASH anyone.  Just explain what you liked from Control 4.  It wasn’t the product today, because you said they weren’t even in the running.  It wasn’t price, because someone offered you to do it for the same price.  That leaves the relationships which you already had with Control 4 and continued to grow as the reason.

With your various businesses that you have promoted on CE Pro since these articles started it is starting to feel like this project was marketed to help grow your businesses and your business relationships with Control 4.

You are the one that is making this negative by infusing drama into each article whether it be the guys that messed up your conduit, or the customer being pissed because of something a manufacture did.  Stop with all of the drama and just explain your decision. 

I will even give you an example of what that looks like since you seem to be confused by the question.  “ We decided to move forward with the control manufacture due to the customer’s interest in having an on screen interface, the concern of having all of the products from one company and not going with the best products from the best vendor, and price played into the decision initially because with the budget we were given we needed something that was more cost effective and the customer wasn’t as concerned with the performance. When the offer came to be given a blank check we decided to stay with the decision because of the performance offerings of the competitive product was not greater than what Firefly had already designed” Now don’t use my example, and give us some details and not a couple of sentences so we can learn from all of this mess. 

Otherwise myself, and I am sure others will draw there own conclusions and mine is that you did this for what was best for you, and your business, and this whole thing is not about bettering our industry or the client but instead about Marketing, Relationships, and what is best for you.

Mark,

I’d be honored.

Stuart
480-242-3780
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

BTW, I don’t have any problem with you and I would be happy to work on a project that your on if I ever do a job in AZ, but don’t tell me what I have to use and then ignore my professional opinion, and not explain the reasons for your decisions.

Jon,

While I did know some people at C4 it wasn’t enough to make me want to select the product for the job.  After doing my research and talking to quite a few dealers I liked the product, what I saw over a year ago was nice but not at all where it is today in reliability and function.  What ever is coming out is not of concern but more of interest.  I am designing around current product.  The programming is one of its strongest features and adds to the project.
A public forum is different from two professionals sitting down to talk about a job and someone demanding that I answer any and all questions here will be disappointed. 
I am sharing as much as I can and want to share.  Too many want to make this about one product over another. 
Noticed how the article is about selecting the final four integrators but most of the posts have been about hardware.

We are excited to be involved with this project and look forward to providing exceptional design and project documentation to Mark Sipe and our mutual client.

As with any ESC or in this case a consultant , we work within their product preferences if they have preferences. In this case those preferences have been made clear to us and we will make sure the hardware and infrastructure are well designed. Make no mistake we will give our opinion when asked, but always work within the manufacturer preferences of our clients.
We are going to play our part to ensure a successfule project outcome. Mark is assembling a great team and the client is in good hands.

Ron Callis
Firefly Design Group

Is there anything else that can be discussed other than the control system at this point? The choice was Control4. Move on…......

@seacoast,

This has gone a little farther than anyone would have thought.  You are obviously angry about something and just a little wound up.  I don’t know you but you seem to be upset. 
Not really your place to say who’s who in this world but knock yourself out.  While you don’t know me, until your latest comments, I had never heard of you.
Why, my working with a client I have known for 15+ years is such a problem, and then my wanting to use Ron’s company, Firefly Design Group, makes you a little crazy. 
The designs will be works of art, the client will be happy and it, in no way, will have a negative impact on your life.

I have to agree with Jon here. I think C4 was a terrible decision for this project. I would not have considered anything less than Crestron and if givin the opportunity to price match I would be all over it.
I know you have a ton of research into this and made your decision based on many factors but it’s hard for me to fathom your choice. I’m sure you weighed your decision carefully and I hope it works out for you.

Ps. Firefly was an excellent choice!

Whitevan Lifestyle - do you have any experience with Control4 in large systems?  Why is C4 a terrible decision?  Anything less than Crestron?  So, AMX or Savant could not have handled this project?  It may be difficult for you to fathom something, but that does not mean it is not a great decision.  There are many things difficult for me to fathom in life…..but it is what it is and life goes on.  Go figure…....

My above post is 100% based on experience. Your experience may be different. Mark made his choice and yes life goes on. I’m not interested in a pissing match.
I am however interested in this project and will continue to follow it. If you read my post I wished Mark well. That was a genuine wish and not a sarcastic dig. I live for this business and have been in it for 39 years. I’ve seen many manufacturers make promises they could not keep and I’ve seen many peers fall apart over those promises. I do not wish that on anyone. My concerns are genuine and my opinion is simply an opinion.