Tracking a $20M Install: Final 4 Integrators

FYI—Everyone should know that at Mark’s invitation, an editor from CE Pro will be visiting the project at its conclusion and reporting on it.

Plain & simple - Crestron works & others will continue to chase them. We have tried and tested all of the others. This is not a matter of chasing what is new. This is an engineering process and anytime you get too many people involved with that you are certain to have problems.

Mark, I am not suggesting that you are not trying to do the right thing but no one does it better than a qualified company integrating with Crestron. The numbers prove this. Take a good hard look at your decision. Cheers.

This back and forth about who/which product is better is like watching 2 drunks in a street fight, flailing away at each other and simply falling down while everyone is amused, laughing and at the same time feeling sorry and embarrassed for their behavior. Good luck Mark and rock on custom install world!

@tlit,

Talk about easy programming the shades will be Mecco using a ZigBee system so they will just enroll into the system, so much for more boxes.
So far as Crestron coming out cheaper what does that do to the dealers margin on hardware.  I want my dealer to make money on this project so cheapest won’t be the biggest selling point. 
Profit on a project directly equates to the quality of work performed, you can pay too much and get a bad job but it is far more likely that paying too little won’t give you what you want either.
The team on this project will work together to create a showpiece of function, style and performance.

Not just CEPro but from 3 different publications and 3 integrators as a “jury of peers”.

Mark are you suggesting by your comment “if someone didn’t hear footsteps coming up fast behind them they wouldn’t have offered to supply a system for the same price” and then discussing the competition for Crestron that they offered a system to your client for the same price as the Control 4 system?  If so, wouldn’t that be in the best interest for the customer to have the best system out there for the same money?  If you are tasked to look out for the customers best interest and some company offered to give a deal so that you could do a system for the budget you have, isn’t that a good deal for the client?  It’s not like they offered you money for making it a different system, did they?  I don’t understand why this is a bad thing.

BTW if it isn’t Crestron, the same could be said for any of the more expensive companies out there AMX, Crestron, or Savant.  If any of them offered a better system for the same price how is that any different than having integrators bid on a job?  Don’t try and tell us that Control 4 and the 100 other product lines that you are going to use to make this thing work that none of them are giving a discount, or doing something to help benefit your customer, your business, or yourself.  The truth will come out from someone at some point with the amount of press around this.

mark, so the zigbee system is gonna be enrolling itself into the C4 system???... I am not sure if i follow… and i am getting the sense you aren’t sure of what zigbee really is…

zigbee works on the same frequencies as most wifi systems… these systems are inherently hindered by concrete walls… and zigbee mixed in wifi enviroments are not easy to get set up and work flawlessy. I have spent a good amount of money for spectrum analyzers to make zigbee and wifi work in tandom… So the house is made of concrete… I am unsure i can agree that the mecco zigbee installation will go as easy as they are sold, being a mesh network doesn’t mean that these products will have no wifi problems…

How many AP’s are being installed so the customer can roam around the estate on their laptop? This is gonna affect the zigbee reliability and distance of each zigbee point…

also, my comment on crestron being less expensive in some of my bids was because we had to use far less products to accomplish the same scenario that C4 the bid was trying to accomplish… there was no margin lost…

and we were able to integrate using the customer;s existing systems and not have to sell them something that would work with C4… C4 doesnt have close to the amount of third party products it can work with… So your comparison that crestron just sells black boxes to make more money is inaccurate… they sell black boxes to meet a need in every aspect of an automated system, and those black boxes work with third party vendors… their product is much more future resistant than what i am seeing so far in this system… Something i know that C4 is trying to change… they are really working hard too.

especially the streamming video… that aint HD… it is compressed video from a HD source then uncompressed at the other end… similar to a CD>to mp3> back to cd… you loose quality…

so it sounds to me like you went with C4 to sell the guy more hardware to bring up more margin thus spending this guys money even more…

I wasn’t slamming you, but your response doesn’t make sense and seems a little short sited. I am very curious and trying to educate myself on C4 and why it is truly become so popular when what i know should cause the reverse effect.

That is why i would LOVE to see what the C4 pic list turns out to be, as i know it would be far less Crestron or AMX products involved, saving the customer money and less headache trying to make a design work with the C4 Hardware I/O limitations… Their products seem to be making a good name, but they just don’t seem to be ready for an install of this caliber…

I would like to be proven wrong thus why i am asking to see the C4 pic list to do what the system requires…

I applaud your efforts and do want you to succeed… not only for you, but for the customer too…
You have done much homework, but i think you are very biased in your decision making… It seems you were sold on C4 before ever considering looking at other vendors… and if that is remotely true, why make this install public and to go through a decision process…

C4 Is amazing at advertising… i think that is what really happened here…

C4 i also wish them the best as they make clients happy and have provided a powerful feature set at a price point tangible by many people… but that price point becomes moot in a system this large as it becomes more expensive to use their products… or at least from my experience… and i know i can be proven wrong, because i am not always right… just another guy with an honest opinion and really want to learn more about them.

best of luck to you and i hope to read more about the amazing project… looks really nice and very exciting for the custom industry as a whole!!

Cheers!!! virtual high five again!!

OK - heard enough…. Mecho shades & Zigbee!

What about Lutron QED or Silent Gliss? Is this a spec house?

How many window treatments? I hope no more than 3 or 4….

Done posting. Obviously we are not dealing with anything close to high end. Cheers.

It doesn’t really matter who made the offer, but I didn’t make the choice, the client did.  More expensive doesn’t always mean better.  There are many costs that come with any product, these can come up after the install is done.

I seem to recall Firefly being picked in the first installment of this fiasco 9 months ago.  Now they are picked again officially after you have

<<<<<  I decided to budget for and select a separate design/engineering company so the integrator could better focus on the installation. Some integration companies have successfully incorporated design/engineering services into their offerings, but this is a small percentage of the industry.

After reviewing numerous design firms, I selected Firefly Design Group.  >>>>>

interviewed a bunch of them?  Come on man.  We all know your company is a partner with Firefly.  What other design firms did you interview?

Is it getting harder to keep all the half truths straight as this train veers straight to the knocked out bridge?

It does seem like a bad marketing scam… Wonder if Firefly’s departure from Crestron finds him a new buddy with Control4….Hmmmm

We all know it won’t take long to uncover the truth here. So much for looking out for your client. Any real professional knows you don’t select control4 for any large scale projects.

Look at Crestron for the numbers…

I would have liked to have gone with Lutron Shades but the client has a friend…...
You know the story, it will still be fine just a little more work.  Silent Gliss is still just a somfy motor.

@tilt

Control4 wasn’t even in the running until I had a chance to review where it was currently and where it was going.  Given what it can do today it would more than satisfy this client, looking ahead at what it will do down the road is just a perk.
The client sets the standards for his house and is not concerned with what someone “thinks” he should have, he was happy with composite video so our spec greatly exceeds that offering HD distribution.  Will it improve before he moves in, probably, does he care, no.

Mark, you are right more expensive doesn’t always mean better.  So please explain to us why the Control 4 system is better than AMX, Crestron, or Savant if the later more expensive 3 brands where to give a system to your client at the same price.  Also, if you could please explain what are the “many costs that come with any product” which occurs “after the install is done” by any of those 3 companies above which DOESN’T happen with Control 4. 

You state that you were hired to pick out the control system and to ensure the project goes smoothly, so obviously you consulted the customer on what control system would allow for this to happen.  Which meens you consulted, advised, recommended, influenced, choose whatever word you want to the customer and he decided based on your recommendation so answering the 2 questions above should be very easy.

This isn’t for bashing the other brands, but for us to all understand what the benefits are for the company that you chose to go with.

Thank you

I am not going to reply to every post in here but guys the system is designed properly. The system does not need 100s of boxes. The entire property will have perfect wifi coverage and also zigbee coverage needed for any zigbee devices..

ITS DESIGNED CORRECTLY and will work correctly.. PERIOD

The project is a long time away from completion. The road map is very nice for products coming out.. Some of which i have been testing in my own home for months along with software and other fun things.. They are all rock solid and the 2.0 interface will be the best release yet from Control4. They took their time to make sure its right. Is it perfect? no but as other said not a single company in the world can deliver perfect software

@JasonKnott—I hope your editor will return 6-12 months after system completion.  That is when we’ll really know how this system did.

To CE Pro….
I would suggest pulling this off the site and not tracking this project.

Jason if you are listening.
Obviously this does not represent the latest and best that we qualified integrators have to offer. Just review Marks last comments on composite video etc. He says he was hired, now he says the client made the decision. Which one is it Mark. Getting confused.