Sony: Blu-ray/HD DVD Format War a “Stalemate”

I believe neither will “win” and both will end up niche formats like SACD and DVDAudio (as many others have also predicted). New fiber optic tv services and internet connected set-top boxes offering HD downloads are going to be the next evolution. Disc based media is on its way out.
Still, an A3 for 2 bills (with 10 free movies thank-you-very-much) and a new $400 PS3 and I’m set for both!

Thank You ALL! As much as I *try* not to be a BD basher and/or HD DVD “fanboy” it really puts a smile on my face to read the like minded thoughts of fellow (self) educated consumers. It’s nice to know you’re all (also) paying attention to the real story here. For the record, like most of you, my real gripe over BD id their tactics, as stated above; if you ain’t got it, don’t say you do, and charge me 2x’s as much!

Funny Bob Black should mention Laserdisc pricing. I often use that analogy myself, as a LD owner who often shelled out $70 for (sub dvd quality) movies for 10yrs!

I’ve learned my lesson. Like any good American, I want it CHEAP, I want it BEST and I want it NOW!

And for me, that’s HD DVD all the way.

“Even with the switch by Paramount and Dreamworks, recent statistics have shown that Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVD titles nearly 2 to 1 through September. “

Didn’t Paramounts first exclusives come out in October?  So isn’t adding these two a bits of info together a little misleading.

Really a fascinating interview here with Mr. Stringer. I don’t think that one Blu Ray player maker, such as Sony, can lower their pricing much more without basically destroying the viability of the other manufacturers players. I predicted this long ago. Its very hard to hold this type of consortium together, as we have seen.

Since 1080P displays with HDMI are becoming the standard, Hi Def DVDs will as well. What we are looking at is HD-DVD replacing SD-DVD. Blu Ray isnt as much as a factor as people may think. Remember, Blu Ray only titles are available as HD-DVD releases in Europe. If one or two movie studios that are Blu Ray exclusive now go dual format, its basically over for Blu Ray IMHO.

Paramounts catalog is too strong, along with Dreamworks, for Blu Ray to “win.” And with the volume of HD-DVD players being sold, and the movies to follow in HD-DVD, other Blu Ray studios can’t sit on the sidelines too long. Its too expensive for them to remain Blu Ray only while the HD-DVD studios make more profit due to lower production costs on the discs.

This all said, I personally salute the super intelligent folks on the technical aspects of both Blu Ray and HD-DVD for a lot of hard work. I don’t really care about sales and marketing and hype, or authors that just have to throw in slants in articles. ( Since until recently, Blu Ray players outsold HD-DVD players 6 to 1, but only lead in software 2:1, they are really down 3:1.—all which will become, very shortly, a very moot point).

HD-DVD—DO NOT TALK TO SONY ABOUT “one format.” They made their bed in the first round—now they must sleep in it.

“Of all companies you wouldn’t think Disney would strong arm our country’s poor children who can’t afford the most overpriced hardware.  America’s children deserve better from Disney.”

Doesn’t surprise me, take a look at the cost to enter their theme parks!  It’s not the children they care about.

If Michael Eisner were at Disney this would not be happening.  CEO’s are obligated to make the most profit for their companies by law.  Even though I have sided with HD DVD from the beginning, I believe every studio should offer both formats and let the public decide by their purchases.  I hope there are class action lawsuits in the future for these companies for not looking after the best interest of the shareholders. But the way I see it some on the Blu Ray side are milking the cow from both sides.  The studio executives know HD will be the victor and the numbers have been schewed from the beginning using the Play Station as a movie player is just not attaching at the rate Sony would hope for.  So when the BD studios stop producing as with Paramount and Dreamworks, only more sales will occur because those folks who purchased their movies on BD will now have to keep hardware for a few movies, or more likely repurchase the movies on HD and double the revenues for the studios.  This is hiprocracy.

I think the comment about Disney strong arming, doesn’t make much sense, unless Disney stops making the normal DVD.  As far as which platform will win over the other, look at the adult film industry. the platform they use will be on top in the long run

Sam,

We’re not discussing studios blocking their releases from standard definition, we’re talking about HI-definition!  What studio would be stupid enough to stop manufacturing DVD’s when they account for 98% of their business?

This is about a pre-planned coalition between companies & studios backing Blu-Ray exclusively from the start, in an attempt to strong-arm the consumer into buying Blu-Ray.

Warren Lieberfarb, the ex-President at Warner Brothers, had this to say about Blu-Ray back in April:

Lieberfarb accused film studios and CE companies backing Blu-ray of forming a “cartel” back in 2002 in an attempt to ensure that its favored format would become the industry standard.

Four of the eight major studios are backing Blu-ray exclusively and Sony, Panasonic and Philips are only manufacturing Blu-ray players.

“It was clear to me that a cartel-like consortium was being created for the purpose of forcing a de facto standard on other manufacturers,” Lieberfarb tells Variety.

Consequently, he says, Blu-ray’s supporters were never seriously interested in negotiating with HD DVD’s backers on a compromise for a single format. At one point, he tells Variety, he asked Time Warner’s legal team to investigate the anti-trust implications of the Blu-ray effort. He believed that the Justice Department should investigate.
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This is what we are discussing.  The concerted efforts of a band of companies to FORCE the consumer into the more-expensive, less complete format that wasn’t even ready for launch!  There was also an article from earlier this year discussing this coalition “attacking” Samsung for “breaking rank” and releasing an HD DVD / Blu-Ray Combo player! 

As anyone can clearly see, Blu-Ray has been an abomination for the consumer since its inception—overpriced, incomplete, riddled with copy-protection and region-coding (all at the expense of the consumer) and backed by a bullying cartel of greedy companies & studios.  As I said before, support HD DVD and tell these corporations that they will acquiesce to our wishes or they will not get our business.

I found the link for the event I mentioned in the above post.  From the CED Industry Newsletter in April, 2007:

Blu-ray stalwart Panasonic brutalized LG for its combo [player] at the latest DVD Forum Steering Committee meeting, we’re told. From transcripts we’ve seen, Panasonic accused LG of breach of contract for offering a combo player, and said it should be censured for doing so. LG blithely thanked Panasonic for bringing publicity to its combo—and said its lawyers would respond. In what seemed an exchange of spite, LG split ranks with its Blu-ray compatriots by voting in favor of all HD DVD measures before the SC—rather than abstaining, as the pragmatic Korean companies usually had.
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...just so everyone interested in hi-def media knows exactly what kind of coalition exists backing the Blu-Ray format.  As I stated, these companies are the very essense of greed and corruption.  Lieberfarb knew this fact, and events like this simply re-affirm his comments.

What I find staggering is the outcry from Sony and PS3 fanboys complaining about Paramount Pictures exclusivity deal with HD DVD after they dumped Blu-Ray this summer.  They support a band of the worst corporations forming a cartel, yet they take issue with a studio dropping support for Blu-Ray—claiming they “took the bait” (a quote from Fox’s moronic exec, Mike Dunn)!

Paramount’s move and now the exponential sales growth of HD DVD hardware mark the beginning of the end for Blu-Ray.  And it can’t come fast enough, IMO!

These comments are a riot. What a FUD fest from the HD DVD cartel.

Let’s see, Blu-Ray sales are inflated due to ‘buy 1, get 1 free deals’. And yet there’s been plenty of “Get X Free Movies” when you buy an HD DVD player, or the XBox addon. So when BR does it, they’re evil, when HD DVD does it, they’re offering consumers a great deal.

“That’s the mantra of the BDA—do anything to buy public perception.”

But dumping $99 HD DVD players had nothing at all to do with buying public perception, right?

It’s amazing and horrifying to see how angry you people get over a video format. When AVSForums had to disable posting on the Blu-Ray and HD DVD forums because of the threats being made over choice of high definition video format, it really opened my eyes.

You seriously have to wonder how much some of these people are getting paid to post the comments they do. And honestly, if some of you are NOT getting paid to be a shill, you ought to be.

Say Steve,

Last time I checked Blu-Ray was giving out discs with players too, in fact they started it. And in my defense, and to your credit I didn’t consider the HD DVD’s going out the door with hardware, or the ones accompanying Blu-Ray devices. I honestly don’t know how all the discs making their way into homes are being counted, free sold or otherwise, which is why I posed the question on the topic. I also don’t read any hostility in this particular list of comments, nor have I read any FUD (Which I take to mean completely made up info).

I also beleive that selling (not “dumping”) a fully functional HD-A2 (not a crippled 1st gen BR player) for $98, not $399 like old BR players go for, is in response to obvious customer demand. That demand is “I want HD at a reasonable price”, and when Toshiba made their deal with WalMart I assume it was with the consumer request in mind. No one, including myself, was forced to buy a $98 HD Player, but i am happy nonetheless.

I don’t feel that having a fully functioning device that offers more features for 1/3 the price makes me a shill. We can argue the merits of both sides endlessly, and i would not deny you your points in the event they counter mine, but I really believe i have done enough homework on the topic to speak clearly and informedly about the current state of this topic.

The bottom line, for me is this short list;
Blu Ray offers:
1)Exclusive Studios that HD DVD does not
2)Potential for more storage now, and a potential for even more someday when it’s all figured out.

HD DVD Offers:
1)Exclusive Studios that BR does not
2)Potential for more storage soon, with a history of completing advances they promise.
3)Web enabled content
4)PIP & other dual video processor features (now)
5)Sub $200 and occasionally sub$100 players
6)Proof of concept (ie, the players and software perform consistently as advertised)

Honestly, if BR did every last thing that HD DVD does, and HD DVD did every last thing BR does (differently) and they were both at the same price point we would argue nothing but Studio support. We don’t like the exclusivity issues, but they are not the deciding factors for a lot of us.

Hey Bigbrain,

I’m not going to be drawn into this debate (like I said, once I read the CNN article about threats of physical violence and police involvement, I kind of wrote off both camps as a bunch of bizarre format zealots), but suffice to say there are more comments than yours in this thread.

I will push back on my ‘dumping’ comment. Why would they sell these players at such a loss unless they were either clearing out old inventory for a newer, better-featured model, or were just trying to buy users of their format? Either of those fit my personal definition of dumping; yours may differ.

Anyway…

FYI, FUD= Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt. Classic forum/comment tactics. Microsoft, in particular, is known for hiring “comment posters” to spread uncertainty and/or biased information.

The comments here just seem like a very organized anti-Blu-Ray smear campaign (which is why I was pointing out what I perceived as contradictions), so either these people have way too much time on their hands, or they’re being paid by someone to comment anti-Blu-Ray posts around the web.  Wouldn’t be the first time, and I’m sure Sony does it just as much as Toshiba does.

It just pays to approach threads like this with a skeptical eye. That’s all I’m saying.

Hey Steve,

If you’re referring to me in your comments, I can assure you I don’t work for any company associated with HD DVD—I work at a racetrack in New Hampshire.  I just happen to own 250 HD DVD’s and am very aware of the BS behind the Blu-Ray companies and studios.  If you’d like to verify everything I’ve written, simply do a search and you will see.

As for the free discs with hardware purchases, everybody knows these discs are NOT included in Videoscan data.  Only units sold at retail (including the BOGO sales) are included in the disc sale numbers.

Ironic you should start posting defense for the BDA now, since with the arrival of Shrek the Third on HD DVD tomorrow marks YET ANOTHER Buy 1, Get 1 Free sale for Blu-Ray—this time included are a whopping 72 titles from Sony & Disney on amazon.com.  Care to continue your claims that these pathetic “give-aways” don’t pad the sales figures or aren’t being done intentionally to counter the big guns on HD DVD?

Discounting the A2 was done at the retail level, according to reports on the net.  That means it’s likely Wal-Mart & Best Buy took the hit in order to provide the item as a loss-leader to draw business.  And it was successful—it increased the user-base of HD DVD by 33% in a 3-day period.

If you want to come in here and argue for Blu-Ray, that’s fine.  Don’t dispute posted facts as FUD, however, because everything written here is true regarding the Blu-Ray format. And since you are aware of the status of the AVS Forum, you are obviously spending the same amount of time reading about HD on the net as we are, so don’t contend that folks here are viral marketers.

See what I mean about bizarre format zealots?

So now I’m defending the BDA? Because I don’t get down on my knees and worship at the altar of HD DVD, I’m pro Blu-Ray, even after I said “I kind of wrote off both camps as a bunch of bizarre format zealots”. I guess the idea is that everyone has to be in one camp or the other, and if I’m not in your camp, it means I’m in the camp of “the enemy?”

Actually, I heard about the AVS thing on C|Net (http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9812929-7.html) I admit I *have* used AVS a few times in the past when deciding on what TV or component to buy, and frankly I find the community pretty darned unsavory.

I still think you ought to be getting some spiffs from Toshiba though…you sure are pushing their agenda. I guess the Blu-Ray folks are slacking, since they don’t have their flacks in here crooning about their format.

I mean seriously, if only people were 1/100th as passionate about the environment, Darfur or other issues that actually matter… what makes this all particularly amusing is the article on this site that says that a lot of people think they’re watching HD when they aren’t.

This format war will end eventually, and none of this will really matter.  It’s not worth getting so churned up about…

And I still say you’re full of FUD… good FUDDERS excel at spinning facts out of context. You clearly have some kind of weird agenda here, and are not at all interested in offering unbiased advice.

Ok, Steve.

How is advice ever “unbiased”? That’s the point of advice, telling someone else what you think they should do, and why. I advise people to choose HD over BR, then I tell them why, that’s not my biased advice, it’s it my advice based my experience. If your experience differs, I respect that.

If you feel, as a consumer (were you to generalize yourself as “Average Joe consumer”) that Blu-Ray offered the best value for dollar, inasmuch as it offered you all the things you found most interesting, necessary and at a fair price then your biased advice would be that BR is the way to go.

I believe people may be passionate about the topic, and for certain “types” it can get silly, but honestly it only gets FUDDY and “violent” when either side steps outside of the “respecting each other’s opinion-zone”.

I certainly don’t consider myself, or frankliy any fellow posters “zealots”. We are enthusiasts, some more extreme than others, but zealotry borders on the inability to listen to reason and/or two sides of a story. I believe the close-minded people you refer to are in the extreme minority with regards to “high-end” AV.

I personally come to read these articles and comment in the forums because I have an opinion, which i form based on what I read, and what I experience (with my own and friends equipment purchases)- Such is life. If the things that are important to me become available in the “competition’s” product, my focus will include that product, until then, I abstain, and advice like minded individuals to do the same.

I do, however, agree that real world issues deserve as much attention, but I also must point out that were this an article about Global Warming, or starving children there would undoubtedly be just as many comments.

It is kind of a cheap shot to suggest that because we are passionate about things as fundamentally unimportant (in the grand scheme) as HD vs BR that we are irresponsible citizens (Inferred from your 1/100th comment). There are forums for every topic out there, and i wouldn’t expect to read about the plight of Darfur here, nor would I expect to read about Samsung’s Dual Format Player on CNN.com.