“He said the company is tempted to invite dealers to Savant’s CEDIA booth “and if they have an iPhone, let me take it for two minutes and configure it to control the whole house. How long will it take the others [exhibitors] to do that?”

I’m sorry, but most “others” could accomplish this very thing. It’s not like they will be developing the entire platform from the ground up in two minutes. The exhibitor could have something set up to accomplish the same thing.

Brent’s point about set up time is something that I have scratched my head about with companies offering Crestron Iphone interface applications as traditionally a CAIP or dealer installer has to map all the buttons and logic to the specific control device and more importantly the size of the display.

If Savant can do this button assignment and adjustment natively based on their being based on the same core technologies which have built in automatically smaller display scalability due to the Itouch, Ipod as well as the IPhone it would be a significant advantage .

Andrew

Bring your TPMC8X to my shop and I’ll have it working my system in less than two minutes.

Automatic assignments of devices to GUIs only works when every device in your system has been meticulously entered into the database prior to the time you need to do the install.  In my experience no company has an all-inclusive database.  This means I must spec equipment into a system based on whether it is in the database or not.  Not very custom.  Savant told me it takes 8 hours to add a device to the database.  Someone has to pay for that labor time.

Lastly, am I the only one that doesn’t want my remote control ringing while I’m watching TV?

“By the way, are you recommending iPhones/Touch as home-control interfaces?”

The simple answer: Hell no we’re not. To begin with there is zero dollars in an iPhone interface. Unless you’re an Apple retailer you can’t provide the phone. That’s only the most obvious.

Second, now you’re relying on a product not designed for home automation to control the home. Not ideal. This is also a product the client is going to take with them everywhere? To their home in Aspen? Their home in Beverly Hills? Their home in Idaho? The client is then going to have a new phone in each house!

And then the client wants the new iPhone 3G. Now you have to have the client come in so you can load new software on their new phone.

There’s no way in hell we’re ever going to offer this to our clients.

If you want to make a $6 profit selling an iTouch to a customer instead of selling a quality interface then close your doors and go work for a quality integrator.

The idea of control from a iTouch or iPhone while in the home is absurb and defeats the purpose of being a custom integrator.  It has some legs outside of the home for control, however that should not be what is selling the system but instead an extra conveinence to offer to your customer.

I am glad that you pointed out that Savant is the first company to build a control system around Apple.  It further proves the point that harddrive based control systems are not viable in our industry.  Yes, this means Lifeware also.  In a way the changes in the economy is a blessing.  The quality brands and integrators will rise to the top and the rest will go away.  Good buy Savant!

I don’t think anyone’s suggesting iPhones as their main system interface, just that it can be a handy tool, and a nice selling point for all their popularity.

Interfaces for cell phones, pdas, Nokia 8000, etc. are all being touted as nice adjuncts to a profesionally installed system.

If it is just a nice little selling point and is not being suggested as their main system interface then the Savant story is realy not very relavent to anything.  It is native to their platform, but that realy provides no benefit to anybody.  As previously mentioned anyone can load a project to any company’s panel in a short amount of time and has nothing to do with the development time to create that program.

The frustrating thing is you guys publish these stories like they are industry changing and are nothing more than an advertisment for their brand.

By the way, you guys published a interview with Jeremy at Speakercraft about his iPhone interface where he said that keypads would not be sold anymore.  Maybe Jeremy has a great way to make iPhones profitable for his dealers who need to sell 6-24 of them for a project.  Again, another story that has no merit to helping integrators grow their business.

Julie, I think you’re wrong. Speakercraft is definitely suggesting the iPhone replaces the traditional keypad.

“I hate to say it, but this is the beginning of the end for keypads,” says SpeakerCraft president Jeremy Burkhardt. “Soon any keypad that isn’t emulated on a device like the iPhone will be obsolete.”

http://www.cepro.com/article/speakercraft_launches_iphone_interface_for_mode_multiroom_a_v/

Savant touting this as “native” to their platform is ridiculous. It’s a browser application that runs in Safari, or a widget at best. This doesn’t care what the OS is on the product.

The fact that Savant lays their system on top of a fully-features operating system is silly. It’s less secure to outside intruders, and uses up a lot of system resources. System-on-chip is the way to go for reliability and security.

Ah, yes, Steven—forgot about that Jeremy quote. good catch. What I meant is that no one in the discussions here thinks iPhone will replace keypads.

Gary, if you think THIS story isn’t industry-changing, try these on for size:

http://www.cepro.com/article/jacobs_and_his_amazing_fish_counter/

http://www.cepro.com/article/circuit_city_firedog_employees_defy_cargo_pants_rule/

and these....

Gary, if you think THIS story isn’t industry-changing, try these on for size:

http://www.cepro.com/article/the_ce_pro_complaint_choir/

http://www.cepro.com/article/shrinking_male_population_spells_doom_for_ce_industry/

(I guess they only let you post 2 links in a single comment)

Julie,

Those articles make you human.  I love the research put into the cargo pants story.

I am a little worried about shrinking males, however.  We are already way too self conscious.  Ohhh it means less number of men in the CE industry!  And that’s a bad thing how?

Seriously though,

Don’t be so sure that Jeremy is wrong.  We have to keep an open mind to what is possible now vs. will be invented. Forgetting the phone feature for a minute, the form and function (and price) of an iPhone is better than any handheld touch screen available today.  If you add the ability to dock it where a keypad would normally go, it would be pretty cool.  For $200 bucks, it would never even have to be removed and would be in fact a viable keypad replacement. We are not even touching, pardon the pun, on voice command technology and gesture recognition.  These could eliminate the need for any physical input interface altogether.
Lastly, I have heard Crestron integrators complain about control systems that do it cheaper and faster for literally twenty plus years.  There are many reasons to not fear this, but the first and foremost is the fact that no company EVER has created a system that can be programmed faster, costs less, and is as flexible and robust as Crestron or AMX...period!  I have tried many… Julie, do remember talking to us down in Palm Desert, CA about Premise several years ago?  You can add an unhappy ending to that story.

Ah yes, I spoke about Premise on many occasions—innovative as the first IP-based control system, but doomed to failure for many reasons.

See Why HA Companies Fail

Great article!  It is definitely a difficult formula to perfect.

this comment section is yet another space for old school crestron/amx dealers to make exceptions for their outdated project. Savant may not be the future, but iphone/touch control is the next wave no doubt about it. Our clients are already asking about ipod touch interfaces and they will get it. it’s a killer multi-touch touchscreen with built in wifi, apps, tied to the apple store, can control itunes/appletv, links to salesforce, ebay etc. All for way less money that an AMX or Crestron or Control4 touchscreen. I know it’s hard for some to understand, but the money is in the design and integration time/labor, not in the touchscreens or plasma tvs anymore. product margins are shrinking and denying clients what they want is a quick way to put yourself under. You have to stick and move with technology.

Don’t imply that old schoolers can’t stick and move anymore...LOL

I am always open to new technology.  I have installed working systems of Premise, Destiny, Control4, Elan, NetStreams, etc. and in my experience none of them come close to the flexibility, stability and reliability of Crestron.  They also have a wide range of solutions including wired/wireless small/large touch panels/keypads and hard button remote controls.  I am all for an alternative that is less costly and covers all of my and my client’s needs.  No one has been able to show me one, can you?  As far as the iPhone is concerned, it simply doesn’t cover all of the interface scenarios that clients need. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be integrated at all.  It could be a really cool addition to a system if it works.
If you run an integration business and are making money on programming alone, I salute you.  My business model requires I profit from equipment and labor/design/programming.  If your logic were correct, how do electronics retail stores survive?
Phones are inexpensive because of the monthly service fees and retail chains do get a piece of this when they sell a phone.
Lastly, you are the expert. Clients hire you to tell them what they need.  If you just give them what they ask for without advising why that may or may not work for their application, then you are doing them an injustice.

Joel, I still have to disagree. At $200, the iPhone might be a steal, but you also have an equally priced monthly contract. Now add eight or nine to the house, and your long-term cost is much higher.

You can call me “old school” or “outdated” but there is no denying that these “outdated” systems out perform these newfangled systems, they’re more flexible, more customizable, more secure, and more reliable by far. This is what high-end clients want.

I think you intended that comment for Drew.  I am in full agreement with you.  I have been doing custom AV installs for over 20 years and using Crestron for 15+ years with no complaints.  As a matter of fact I just went to a house where the new owner wants to upgrade the existing system which happens to consist of a perfectly working SmarTouch system I installed for the previous owner in the 90s.

actually, for an interface device the ipod touch is the better choice because of a lack of service plan. in response, I don’t believe retail electronic stores are really doing all that great even with volume many times a custom retail shops. Regardless our clients understand our role as technology advisors and certainly listen to our advice, but I just can’t make a strong argument against suggesting an iphone or ipod touch as an interface device vs another panel with limited touch control. (which interface app you use of course makes a huge difference) But you have to admit the IP nature of a platform like the ipod touch has the ability to go extremely far in this market. The Apple music interface is stronger than any other system by far, and cover flow will soon be applied to movie storage as well. Further, AppleTV is a no brainer for every system we build.

All I’m trying to say is that the iphone or ipod touch is a tough horse to bet against, and I think some of the arguments here (particularly the cost) are a little old fashioned. Your design/labor/programming along with SLAs should reap profits for years to come. Less important is the margin on a plasma or touchscreen.

I’ve already listed a variety of reasons why the iPhone or iPod Touch is a bad choice. Reliability being the chief issue.

IP control systems certainly are the future. The limited bandwidth of RS232 and 50-foot limit are issues.

But a product not designed for this use is not a safe or reliable platform for home automation.

Needless to say you’re sending your client down to Costco to pick up a product so you can install software on it. And then next year when Apple releases a new version you have to start out all over again.

In the end, the Apple products don’t do anything a normal panel does, it’s more hassle, less reliable, less secure and less profit.

Amen on every point!

And as a side note, because the article’s title infers that Savant may have implemented the iPhone into a control system the best so far, their pricing for a system seems to be higher than Crestron after you pay for software and yearly licensing fees.  You also need a Mac to program it.

Ironically, Mac computers can be compared to Crestron or AMX touch panels.  Higher than average priced devices that do what many think can be done for a lot less money.  Hmmmm....

Will good custom installers still sell touch screens and keypads when the portable device like the iPhone or similar device has left the home?  Yes.  The home still has to operate when Dad and his phone are at work and Mom is shopping.  I do believe that low cost portable mass produced devices like the iPhone will replace the great majority of tpuch screens and key pads.  As amazing integrators providing the best engineering and service we will design and sell easy to use systems that integrate with the most popular portable technology in your touch screen cell phone. The purchasing power and scalability of Nokia, Samsung and Apple is such that even huge companies like us with SpeakerCraft Xantech, Niles, Imerge and Elan under common ownership we don’t get the scale.  It’s your job to align your self with progressive companies that will easily integrate with true consumer control devices.  Are passive keypads without two way metadata dead…hell ya.  Are devices that don’t display and speak to multiple iPods totally dead today, almost, they are dieing daily.  We invented multi room multi source iPod systems and your selling tens of thousands of them.  Let me tell ya, as an industry we must integrate with consumer devices and make our clients lives easier.  Will you loose profit potential on some items???...yes but, as good business people we can make that up in integration, service and sells skills.  Embrace the new technology available, don’t fight it or you’ll be like the high end 2 channel audio store, dead.  Remember the vinyl vs cd comparisons?  Go forth and support your life by making millions providing easy to use systems that make mass consumers happy.

guys, there’s no reason to go down with the titanic here - there are plenty of lifeboats and you’ve still got about a year to jump ship. Crestron and AMX will have the worst year yet at CEDIA, and as more ipod touch interfaces come out for a variety of control systems things will get worse still. This is a bet that you can’t and won’t win - especially as Crestron and AMX panels continue to tout rudimentary features as advanced. These products have been eclipsed already by more modern stuff already - regardless of where it can be bought or how much it costs. For those who claim that an apple interface is unreliable and is less secure, I can only assume you haven’t actually used these products…