About that Power Button on the iPort In-Wall Dock

I can see why the button is unnecessary since the iPad has a built-in power-down/sleep mode.

But if there was a way to ensure low false alarms, I could see that button very useful for automatically arming/disarming the alarm system for a delayed entry/exit system.

This would enable the homeowner to quickly activate/deactivate vs. having to unlock the iPad screen from sleep mode, getting to the alarm interface screen, and then punching in their code.  I know the iPad reverts back to the last screen you were on when you come out of sleep mode, but what if you activate the system using a remote keyfob or leave the home via another door and the iPad was in the audio mode, for example?

That button could solve the problem.

“The rarely-used power button led to end-user confusion”.

Yet leaving a button on there that doesn’t do anything makes total sense. Donuts.

Jason
Did you just suggest using a wifi ipad to control a security system? Just wanted to make sure that I understood you before I told you how stupid of an idea that is.

Jon—it would be no different from arming/disarming/querying the security system via an automation touchscreen, cellphone, PC, keyfob, etc.

@Jon—I echo Julie’s comment, but without knowing the specs I am also assuming the dock is powered using Power over Ethernet which would give it a stable hardwired connection.

I don’t think there’s ANY wire currently running to the dock. It’s just a receptacle, right? I’ll ask ...

The difference being that when you have a touch panel controlling a security as a primary panel it would be of bad design to have it on a wi fi panel.

It’s these kind of comments that have concerned me of your industry understanding and qualifications for writing in a publication that is looked at by many in our industry for guidance.

This whole publications interest to stir up controversy amongst the integration industry and urge manufactures and dealers to take sides is turning this publication in to a tabloid.

I write this from my iPad which you all have positioned as the savior to our industry and yet had you actualy had industry experience you would know that this piece of garbage is hardly worth the attention you have given it.

@ Jon

piece of garbage, please explain!  Maybe you can share your industry experience and enlighten us all…....  If you haven’t noticed as integrators we are selling a luxury item in an economy that is pulling back the reins on luxury.  Don’t know how a killer $500 touch screen gets your goat so bad,  and yes to clear things up, we all understand that you still need to have light switches in every room, and occasionally a dedicated security keypad here and there. 

Maybe you’ve never used a wireless touch screen to enhance your installations?

Jon, I’m still not getting it. So you should not promote the use of cell phones, iPads and IP-enabled touchscreens (AMX, Crestron, Elan, Control4, HAI, for example) as secondary controllers for a security system? I see them as a nice convenience if I’m in bed and forgot to arm the system. I’d rather not get out of bed to walk to a security keypad.

@ MCE

As a personal entertainment device the unit is fine.  The real fun in the unit is in the apps themselves.  The design is sleek and elegant, however the edges are sharp and the unit is too dense, slick, and large to fit properly in your hands when using for a long time.  I have large hands and still find it to be difficult to use for extended periods.  If it were an inch smaller and had an anti slip back along with rounded edges it would be much better.  Again, this is just from my experience in trying to use it frequently.  You could put a case on it, however then it wouldn’t fit in most of these 3rd party integration devices from what I can tell.  Also, the way it handles web pages, especially links which seem to stall the unit while it closes and then re launches a new web page is frustrating.  As a control interface it seems to respond more like a computer or as a cheaper automation brands touch screen then as a dedicated touch screen.  Button presses and feedback have delays.  This might be due to its poor wifi reception which is better than some wi fi touch panels, but still worse than any computer.  The problem is that it isn’t designed to work as a dedicated touch panel for your control system so it doesn’t manage the connection delay or loss the way that a dedicated panel does.

The iPad as a primary interface in a control system is a crutch and of poor design.  As mentioned above there are several reasons, and several more why this is not a good choice.  I would never suggest to my typical client the use of an iPad in their system unless they owned one already.  Many of my clients who buy $200k to $1 Mill systems want technology that is easy to use.  Giving them an interface that has so much potential functionality is dangerous.  Has Apple sold Millions of iPad’s, iPhones, and iTouch, of course but most of these customers don’t have big automation systems at home and they certainly didn’t buy it specifically with the intention of controlling their system with it.  If the customer has an iPad already then it makes sense to have them use it as a secondary interface in some areas, but not as a primary interface.  The amount of time to start up, the way the unit goes to sleep, the lack of support from apple, no hard buttons, and the lack of margin are just a few reasons why I wouldn’t sell it as a primary interface.

You are right, we are selling luxury items in an economy that is pulling back, but people are still spending money and they will spend more when they see and understand the value of what they are getting.  The problem is that most integrators along with publications such as CE Pro are promoting the use of the iPad as the savior product and it isn’t.  It comes down to proper design for the application while still maintaining quality and performance.  If a customer doesn’t want to spend $100k on a system then change the design, but don’t lessen the quality or performance.  If you have a $500 iPad and a $500 dock, and the cost of the app then you have a $1000+ in wall touch panel with limited margin.  Aren’t there plenty of touch panels in our industry that are designed for controlling the home which cost around $1000 and have better margin, support, quality, performance specific to our business?  Do you need a 10” touchpanel in every room? No!  If you have a few areas that you are going to put some wireless $4000 touch panels and the customer doesn’t want to spend the money, then sell them some hand held touch panels or remotes for less money.  If they want the larger ones then they see the value and they will spend the money.  If they don’t then a hand held is a great lesser cost solution.  This is called selling and we aren’t doing enough of it in our industry right now.

@ Julie
As secondary control devices if the customer has the product already or is interested in it and is comfortable with it then yes it makes sense.  Jason however was suggesting the use of it as a primary interface for controlling the security system and a wi fi panel made by a 3rd party company with no automation design or intention of its use in that application is not a good design.  If I had a dedicated and proven control company’s wifi product I would not see a problem using it to control security from an in wall dock, however most of the companies with these products have Ethernet to the dock so it isn’t running on wi fi when docked.

In Jason’s example he describes exactly why the iPad doesn’t make sense as primary interface.  You can’t program the unit to function exactly how you want it to work because it wasn’t designed for how our industry is trying to use it.  IF you could wipe the iPad clean and just have it running your automation app all the time for control and then have it manage the applications from within the control environment then it would have some strong legs, but that will never happen.

Oops, I was wrong. Not the first time. Indeed, the unit is powered over Cat 5.

Jon

Sounds like we have two different customers.  I’ll give you this, if your customer has no concern over price, I’m with you, sell him the most expensive insanely overpriced touch screen and supporting equipment I can find.  I make up ways that if benefits my customers. The higher I can get the bill, the more I make on a single job, right?  The sorry truth is that business has dropped off significantly, and price sells (I know I still sell my company image and experience way before we ever talk product).  If the industry adopts a $500 touch screen, with it’s admitted minor flaws, the industry will have to adapt forever on.  Who would dare release a $2k touch screen when everyone is using one that works well, and at a quarter of the cost?

Jon I would prefer your customers, but I cant complain about a product that takes me from .05% of the population that can afford a system, and helps me target the rest, with a pretty cool solution.

@ MCE

You seem to be missing the point of the answer that I gave you to your question.  I have the same type of customers that you do unless of course you are selling plasma displays and URC remotes in which case the iPad discussion is moot.  While you say “I still sell my company image and experience way before we ever talk product” it’s clear that you are thinking price and defeat before you every get to that discussion.  How can you make the comment “sell him the most expensive insanely overpriced touch screen and supporting equipment I can find.  I make up ways that if benefits my customers”?  How about sell them the best performing, most reliable, and best product to fit their application and explain to them that the cost of the “system” is X, instead of trying to line item everything and then justify why a product costs what it does.

It is more difficult to sell and price has and will always be a determining factor when selling anything, but you don’t make money playing the price game instead of selling value.  In regards to your comment about being able to sell to more than .5% of the population that is simply marketing hype by someone.  The iPad does nothing without the control system behind it and all the other stuff that you need as part of a complete solution.  If my system costs $30k, and your system cost $30k I can assure you that my customer will be happier with the performance of my system then yours using a bunch of iPad’s.  That would be the same customer, right?  That would also still be a very limited audience. Also, I can assure you my system would be more profitable which keeps me in business to support that system and get them into upgrades in the future as they decide to spend more money on their technology.

If the industry adapts a $500 touch screen, so be it.  Let’s just hope that it comes from a company that designed it to do what we are doing with it instead of from a company that could care less about our little industry and how we use their products.  Again, if Apple allows us to use their hardware as we like with our control companies App being in charge then this becomes more appealing.  Not even Control 4 who has deteriorated the price points of jobs in our industry can come out with a $500 wireless touch screen.  Not even Savant who’s whole product is built on an Apple computer will be able to have an iPad work how they want it to with their system.  Everyone is bound by Apple, and by iTunes and they aren’t thinking about how a new update is going to effect an App that somebody created.  Look at when they changed the adapter to the iPod and all of sudden you couldn’t charge some models, and couldn’t control others with the equipment we sold to our customers to work with that product.

Julie, Does it provide just power over Cat 5, or control as well?  Again details that would be relevant to the integration community when doing a story on how the iPod can save us by allowing us to sell cheaper stuff instead of “more expensive proprietary touchpanels” as Jason’s article states

CE Pro used to provide relevant articles on products, companies, and stories that were informative and seemed to be a for a purpose of bettering our industry.  Now it seems like most of the articles seem to be about how screwed up the market is and how we can sell less expensive stuff or how can we get Crestron dealers and Control 4 dealers to get all upset.  If you did many of the same articles and left your demoralizing spin off of them I could see CE Pro being a resource again instead of a Tabloid.

Jon

Looks like we could clash on this topic for days.  I’m about to complete my second job, of which I specked out for iPads as my control points.  My profit before operation costs is 40% .  I have to say, I changed my logic on this job as I cut as many costs as I could, to get the price down without losing usable functionality, or margin for that matter, since I work to feed my family (that margin is what matters most to me).  The use of iPads on this bid, was a major contributor to cutting costs.  If my job is a $30k job and my touch screens are 5 to 10 thousand dollars of the budget, I have to cut out other things and risk losing my customer on this budget because of the decreased functionality.

Anyway, I’m alright with you hanging out in the hills looking for your golden geese, while I’m filling the gap with the rest of the population.  I must say, If I were doing as high priced jobs as you are (you said $200k to a mil?), I would be fighting this new shift as well…........................ just saying

MCE, I think that you are still missing the point and as you mentioned we could go on for days.  I’m sure myself or someone like me is bidding against you and we just have different ways that we look at design, sales, and business as a whole.

I’m not fighting this new shift as you put it. Cheaper is not a shift.  Using products for what they were not inteded to do is not new either. I am for happy customers, which come from good design with good products at a fare price.

Just remember, price is the lowest point to compete and everyone can compete there.  You are doing nothing unique to differentiate yourself by using iPad’s as interfaces to save cost.  Selling the benefits of a properly designed system and why cutting corners to save cost is not new either, but it does work out better for everyone in the end.