5 Pre/Pros to Bolster Home Theater Performance

Hey Robert… Ever hear of Anthem?

What, the mcintosh MX136 can not even do audio over HDMI. The rotel is already dated and does not offer room corrections, same as the lexicon. These snake oil processors do not belong in the same class as the denon and integra.

Hi Dave, yes, the Anthem Statement is a good unit.

This list represents the top five manufacturers of the CE Pro 100 list. These companies are the most frequently used by those installers.

Hi Harry these products represent choices consumers can make.

I also wouldn’t get hung up over the HDMI with the Mac unit. McIntosh has solutions that address specific needs, which include multichannel 7.1 inputs that can be used in place of HDMI.

As for room correction and the calibration modes. Those are nice features, but they are not the end all.

Nothing beats the process of mechanically treating a room (you are not electronically processing a signal with EQ) and the process of manually setting up a theater.

Manual setup and room treatments ensure consistent and billable results that are verifiable for a CE Pro.

To learn more about room acoustics I suggest taking some manufacturer training courses, as well as classes from THX and/or the Home Acoustics Alliance (HAA).

Audyssey’s technologies are very cool and they work well, but adding EQ should be a secondary option.

Robert Archer,
I tend to agree with both you and Harry…

Harry is correct that the McIntosh, is not in the league of other processors.

You are correct regarding manual set-ups and room treatments. I also understand that CE PRO’s top 5 list was comprised of the most used processors.

However, can we all stop the nonsense of McIntosh being a viable product? Are we selling new equipment to the “Peppridge Farm Man?...”

COMMERCIAL: “Remember when grand dad use to sit by the fire and replace the tubes in his 1950 25wpc Mac tube amp? Well Peppridge Farm remembers. That why we now put an expiration date on all of our home baked goods…”

The McIntosh piece has a $10K retail… What a joke! When we’re talking this kind of money, (and every high-end magazine rating I’ve ever read), agrees that the Anthem D2v is rated #1 across the board at a retail of $7,499.00.

Granted, most people don’t go into this price range. But when they do, nothing will outperform the Anthem in sound quality and/or features. Even if they or I never heard of Anthem, I would still purchase the Denon over the Mac, (which is the same cost as the Anthem).

McIntosh is simply over rated and over priced for what it delivers. The only reason to purchase a Mac is the opportunity to have a free wine and cheese brunch when the local high end dealer has a weekend “Mac Clinic Event.” It’s fun to watch the factory reps blow dust off their tube tester and tell people that the 40 year old amps are still worth big money…

Hi Dave, the Mac stuff is cool and it does sound good. I think the key thing to remember is that it’s your clients’ pocketbooks that are spending for this equipment and not yours.

Mac makes solid state and tubed gear and the brand is probably the only brand in the industry that has a legacy comparable to products like the Gibson Les Paul and the Chevy Corvette.

Having a legacy and resale value is enough for some people. When you add on the performance of the product it becomes an interesting proposition for some consumers.

We did have the Anthem pre/pro in our offices at CE Pro and we were impressed by the unit. I think there are room for both brands in the market because they are going after two different types of buyers.

The Mac is more for the audio enthusiast that wants HT with features like a true analog bypass. The Anthem is more of a pure theater piece for someone that wants state-of-the-art home theater features such as the ARC processing and HDMI.

With that said both components are flagship units that owners can be proud to own.

Think of as a blond vs a brunette. Both are cool, but different.

Bob

Robert,
I hate to disagree with you, but the Anthem DOES have the following features:

* Anolog-Direct available on all inputs.
* True tone anolog bypass on all inputs.
* True balanced 2 channel analog inputs & outputs.

I assure you I’m not a spokesman for the company, but to imply that the people who spend $10K on a piece designed around home theater can do without or don’t care about HDMI and ARC processing is ridiculous.

Hi Dave, it’s all good.

I didn’t say that people that have HTs are primarily concerned specific features.

My point was that McIntosh is known for its audiophile pedigree and for people that want the allure of the brand with its two-channel history it’s a piece that installers can present to clients.

The Anthem is a different piece of gear all together. Mac gear is known for a certain tonality than some of the newer companies on the market like Anthem, which is a flagship product without question.

Like I said it’s a matter of preference. Some people like blonds and some like brunettes. You can’t go wrong with either choice, it’s an individual thing.

Remember the fun thing about audio is that it’s subjective. No two people hear the same.

When using the analog inputs of the MX136 or any other processor you are then using it as a volume control. You then can not add any DSP functions because you would have to go through a ADC and back to DAC. Mcintosh is a joke, stick to amps.

The top two processors right now are the anthem D2v and the denon AVP. Nothing else comes close to these two.

Yes audio if full of enthusiasts/audiophiles who will stick with a product based on name/price alone. I do not understand this but whatever floats their boat. Look at the theta owners and the CB3, they still do not have HDMI.

One thing I do not agree on is peoples subjective opinion on sound quality. People will not pick the denon based on name but it still runs 2 DAC’s per channel and weighs in at twice that of the anthem.

Robert,
Unfortunately, people don’t remember when McIntosh was purchased by Calrion, and at the same time McIntosh started selling car stereos to save their bottom line. I agree that sound is objective. However, the “blond/brunette” analogy doesn’t work here because the only people that still care about the brand are all gray.

Harry,
I agree with you totally. I was a Theta dealer for many years and sold tons of their processors until Denon’s processing power and Dacs out performed the Theta at 1/5 the cost and ease of use. I’ve been a Denon dealer for over 20 years and still love the product. Yet, it’s unfortunate that people bypass the brand altogether in this price range because they want to be in the “high-end club” and learn our secret handshake.

Let’s also remember, (even though today it’s definitely a great product), Rotel in the late 70’s and early 80’s made nothing more than crappy rack systems. If I remember correctly, it was one specific $400.00 CD player that got rave reviews and put them on the map.

P.S. There’s a lot to be said regarding the “brick factor/weight” of a product. Right on target Harry!

Hi Harry, why would you want to add DSP to a signal?

Using the analog inputs is a legit way to stay up to date with the uncompressed high res formats.

Dave what does the fact that McIntosh having gone through ownership problems over the years have to do with the line now.

Remember D&M;owns both Denon and McIntosh.

As for Theta I am guessing since the brand was sold and the economy has bottomed out its ownership has pulled back on some R&D;spending.

I also want to say that if you’re looking at the top pre/pros out there look no further than the Bryston SP-2.

That piece’s credibility goes beyond the audiophile crowd and into the pro audio world. Many engineers mix with that unit and their ears our more educated than ours.

bob archer posted;

“Hi Harry, why would you want to add DSP to a signal?”

Anything from adding bass to room corrections, crossover points, room correction. If you are not needing any further DSP functions from the processor why would you spend that amount of money on a volume control?

” also want to say that if you’re looking at the top pre/pros out there look no further than the Bryston SP-2.”

Again what would be the point? No HDMI or room correction and no features.

I guess if you want to add distortion to the signal those features are fine because that’s the risk you run every time you add something to the original signal. it’s the reason why you start with room treatments versus EQ.

I am not knocking DSPs, room correction and auto calibration, but they area all added as post processing measures and they are not part of the original signal.

Those auto calibration modes have been found to be average at best and EQ has always been considered a secondary option compared to a properly designed room.

I am also a big fan of the uncompressed audio formats for home theater and I would guess that when MacIntosh releases a new pre/pro it will include those functions.

The Anthem, Denon and Rotel pieces was just introduced. The Lexicon and Mac units are about a year older and still in their manufacturers’ line ups.

Robert,
I’d like to preface this post by saying “thank you” for engaging in these posts and writing the original article. I also understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and in MOST cases our favorite products are subjective.

However, the point Harry and I are trying to get across is that McIntosh is simply over priced and over rated. If it’s our job, be it a respected writer such as yourself, or veteran sales people such as ourselves, our job is to educate the public with the truth and not be sheep due to the legacy or allure of any product line.

Regarding the allure and legacy of Mac, I brought up the fact that McIntosh was purchased by Clarion to try to remove the allure and legacy of the product. I worked in a store that sold Mac and I agree with you… That clientele is sold on the product before they walk in the door. I still remember their 1st CD player that sold for $7K. It was nothing more than a Phillips drive system using standard Burr Brown Dacs. Now I ask you… Is that fair to take $7K out of someone’s pocket because they don’t know any better? Or was it just easier to take the money instead of taking the time to educate the client?

I’m guilty of this myself because I sold Bose under the same roof as Thiel back in the day. It took 2 minutes to sell an Acoustimass system when the client came in the door and asked for it. Yet when I took the time to demo a Thiel, 60% of the time the client went with it and they heard great audio for the 1st time.

Regarding a pro audio engineer’s ears being more educated than ours, you are way out of line here my friend. I’ve set up 3 professional recording studios myself, (back in the day), and the reference standard was Lexicon processors and B&W;speakers. I have also to been to the Lucasfilm ranch where they used all of M&K;which I also sold.

Yet today’s recording engineers are a different breed… They spend most of their day trying to make talentless artists sound good by extremely altering voices and making a $500.00 Casio keyboard sound like a Steinway Piano. Then they spend the rest of their day boosting EQ levels to make this crap sound good for IPOD users. Not to mention, most of their ears are shot by wearing headphones 24/7.

The moral of the story is a Mac product, specifically this processor, is an over priced, over rated piece of crap and it should not be promoted because it is not fair to the uneducated consumer.

The Bryston SP-2 is a fine piece for $4,995.00 but still can’t compete with the Anthem or Denon. Which leads to my last question… If you felt so strongly about the SP-2, why not say in your original article that you disagree with CE-PRO’s top 5 list and explain the benefits?

Thanks again Robert for the intriguing discussion. BTW: The only “old timer” brand I still have respect for is Audio Research. That company never bailed on craftsmanship nor did they ever over charge for the quality and customer support they still deliver to this day. I didn’t want my posts to come off sounding that older companies should move out of the way for the new kids on the block.

Hi Dave, this type of discussion is fun and it’s a dialog that audiophiles can share with one another like sports fans arguing about the Red Sox and Yankees.

Here’s where your wrong about the pro audio industry. They make recordings to please the people that pay them.

If they are told to auto tune Justin Timberlake’s vocals on the third verse of a song then they do it. If they compress a song it’s because the record company wants it to sound dynamic in a limited bandwidth format like iTunes or FM radio.

There ears are better, they know when a guitar’s b string goes flat to A sharp, they know to EQ a bass line to give it space free from the kick drum and how to do that.

Most audiophiles don’t have those skills.

Most recording engineers and musicians are also cheap as can be. Have you ever wondered why a pre/pro costs $7,500 when a product that makes the music like a Gibson Les Paul Standard costs about $2,500 or a pair of active mixing monitors can be had for prices a low as a few grand?

It’s because they view these products as tools. It’s collectors that drive up the prices of old music gear, not working musicians. They are not going to be oversold on an item because of its marketing.

Most engineers are also trained to listen a low volumes so they don’t fatigue their ears because they need to listen to a track multiple times.

As for why I didn’t inject my opinion into the story. That is simple: It doesn’t belong there. I can share my opinion in the blogs or in posts like this. The facts were these are the five most frequently used brands by the top 100 install firms in the country. I just randomly chose five products from these companies to represent those manufacturers.

Getting back to the topic here of the McIntosh. I would suggest that you visit the company’s exhibits at EHX, CEDIA or CES. Now I know they won’t be at CEDIA this year, but maybe if you have the time you can visit them at CES so you can give them a chance.

I would say that the Mac is a well designed product that’s not everybody’s cup of tea and that fact doesn’t make it a “piece of crap” like you state, it’s just different from what you prefer: the Anthem, which is also one of the top products in its category.

I do agree about AR. They make nice stuff and thankfully for installers they are aware of the custom market and the long-term potential of it.

thanks for reading Dave. If you ever have questions for us or even a suggestion feel free to contact anyone of us on staff.

best regards,
Bob

Bob,
I understand the fact as a professional writer, that your personal opinion did not belong in the article. Not too mention, even if you could, you’re not in the position to #### off any manufacture.

It may be beginner’s luck, but I have an idea for your next article…

Instead of looking or seeking an opinion from the top 100 install firms in the country, why not open up the venue to all the little guys like me. My company only does $1 million annually by referral only, (no website, no advertising), but I’ll put up myself and my staff’s qualifications and product knowledge against anyone’s elses in the business.

The problem with mega million dollar dealers is that they’re already in bed with certain manufacturer’s, have become complacent, and will support whomever is giving them the best terms or deals. Is it any wonder that companies such as Planar & D&M;Holdings won’t be at the show? Why should they care… we’ll still keep ordering if the product is decent and stop when it’s not.

I can frankly say after 33 years of being in this business and attended more shows that I care to remember, the only reason why most owners attend CES & Cedia shows is to get away from their wives/families to go out and get drunk on the manufacturer’s dime. It’s been years since I’ve seen a comprehensive show demo that a good rep cannot deliver at my doorstep. 

I think it would be interesting to hear from single shop owners who are in the trenches everyday, and see what they think the best speakers, amps, processors, remotes, reps, etc. are whether they sell/deal with the brand or not. I just admitted in my last post that I think that Audio Research is one of the finest brands out there for what they do, and I don’t even sell the product.

The most honest opinions will come from those who have nothing to lose and do not have a premeditated agenda.

I’m ready if you are… Not to mention, it would be one hell of a CE PRO string of posts.

Thanks again Bob, you’re a true gentleman.