Tracking a $20M Install: Final 4 Integrators

Mark
Looks like you have selected a final four that would equate to Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky and UCLA matchup.

Couple of underdogs next to some pretty big players, should be interesting.

Mark - are you saying another manufacturer tried to “buy” the project?  That is low…...

There are far better players by a wide margin than whom you have selected in the Phoenix metro market, though the guys at AE are top notch.

Better players, wide margin, really? 
Name 3 who have Control4 experience and could handle this size project.

Mark. A manufacture would never have anything to do with trying to go around the consultant who specified an alternate product! No way! Beyond low. No need to go any further on the who, what and how. I was waiting for that to happen and see if it would get back to you. Glad your in control of the situation and the client relationship. Because this once again proves business is about relationships! For those who are shocked by that type of action…..Oh sorry I need to go my ride is here to fantasy island!

Mark. Good luck and great job working hard for the client.

I am just amazed at how any CE company can pull off being everything to everybody. 20 years doing this, I just can’t fathom being a dealer for 3 control platforms. Excuse me Mrs. Smith, are you talking about Crestron, Control4, Savant or Lexus? Maybe tomorrow Plutotron!

Good luck to those that can manage all the different systems, programming etc..

Mark,
Good job handling that tough situation.

And “Michael”: seriously, stop. You must be one of those ‘far better’ dealers. I’m sure Mark has spent countless hours vetting dealers to make his decision and you can’t just come in on a whim and say he’s all wrong.
Sheesh..people on here are so quick to judgment.

Wait Wait Wait…. I thought Mark was doing the design, then he hires firefly?  This is some of the best reality disaster reading I’ve ever encountered.  For a $500K project the amount of politics and “designers” is crazy.  There are MANY great companies in this industry that could have EASILY handled this project start to finish without all the additional BS.  I’m all for a correctly designed and documented AV system; however, I have to believe that by the time this client pays Mark, Firefly, the AV company, and who knows how many other “consultants” he will over pay by 10-20% since too many hands are in the cookie jar.  Mr. Client, if you are following this thread, my advice is to stop the insanity and hire a good all around company that has recently and successfully implemented projects like yours, not just read about what products are good or trained some dealers on how to run their books.  Nothing personal against anybody or any product, this is just too much for a $500K job.  If we were talking $1-2M I would be singing a different tune.  My $.02

Not very many people I know can effective program systems on multiple formats. One man shops are going to be better served by focusing on a single format. Incorporating multiple programmers into your business model is what we do when we reach the regional level.

This appears to be the story of a local integrator stepping up to the regional arena a little soon. When an integrator becomes familiar with a product/brand they can essential operate as if they have blinders on in regards to other brands of equipment. this can lead to a compromised ability in the regional market. Recommendations to clients will be biased by the integrators limits. An in depth understanding of the equipment available across the industry is required when you step into the regional integration market. This typically occurs when the operation expands beyond a few people and becomes a true systems integration company. The national market is an even more demanding place to set up shop.

There are many system integrators with programming experience with only one major brand of equipment. The time required to train programmers on multiple systems is considerable. This is a required step when you want to take your integration company from a local player to the next level.

We have an industry that unfortunately has far to many undereducated and over advertised members. One of our tasks is to insure customer satisfaction by educating our engineers, integrators, programmers and installers. I will enjoy watching this project move forward although I don’t how much we will hear about it.

Byran,
You really need to read from the beginning to keep up.  I never said I was going to do the engineering.  My job was to help the client choose the best system and contractor for this project. 
Only a handful of companies can do the level of design/engineering that Firefly does everyday, you should look at their work.
I have talked to lots of companies and reviewed multiple systems before making a choice.  I am the only consultant and very aware of my limited budget.  A comparable system from these many companies you speak of was coming in at 500k+ up to 1.3mil.  At least with my design and Firefly’s engineering the client will have what he wants and not just something someone wanted to sell him.
There really are some great companies out there and then there are some not so good, how is a client supposed to know the difference?
A new client I am working with now didn’t want anything because their last house (12,000 sqft) was a nightmare and they hate all the systems.  Once I helped them understand it was an isolated incident and what we could do for their new home they felt better about our industry.  It only takes on bad company to hurt lots of goods ones.

Specifically replying to Andrew Ellis and the comments about stepping up to “regional”.

Are you implying that once you become “regional” which we are by the way, that you have to start using multiple control platforms? We are 100% Crestron because we can service all of our target market and do it knowing we have implemented a very solid and reliable system. We can do this everywhere and not have to train on 3 or more different systems everytime a new “release” or update becomes available. As you stated, it is very costly and time consuming to maintain the 3 or more lines.Crestron has many choices for clients looking to integrate systems at any level. So I see no bias in recommending black boxes that you believe in and also do not see the argument for limited options. Remember, we sell solutions not boxes…

To Bryan - I totally agree that this project is consuming too much $ and time for a project of this size. It doesn’t speak well to the industry. I am a firm believer in proper system design, implementation & programming but come on… Consultant, private “designer”, endless interviews, multiple proposals etc.. Good luck to the “lucky” bidder.

What looks bad for our industry is this constant bickering over EVERY new detail that gets posted here. Seriously!

Gene and Bryan: do you really know enough about the inner workings of this project and Mark’s process to deem it wasteful? Perhaps the construction timeline is making this appear to take more time than is really being spent on the electronics portion. Either way, Mark has not posted enough info here for anyone to make that call. While there are companies that can easily handle this in house, it sounds like the customer is happy with the way Mark is handling it.

So, for once, let’s have a forum without all the chest thumping that does nothing except to hurt our industry.

early in the conversations, mark mentioned that his crestron showroom experience was that of too many boxes that would equate to more expense…
But in honesty, the only way for a system like this to be , imho, handled by C4 is to add a mountain of HC boxes and many extenders. How is a C4 system gonna handle all the shades and drapes listed?
I would be curious to see the C4 pic list to make this system work.

I could easily design a system using crestron for this system using far less parts than C4 needed to use, which would have saved money and programming time…

All to often do i help integrators bid against C4 jobs using crestron and they always come out cheaper with more functions that the customer wanted.

You also mentioned not wanting to be a beta site, but are waiting for C4’s new software to debut… do you really think they will release their new software that has no bugs…?... this is impossible… no one,... let me repeat, no software and or hardware company will ever release something new without bugs…

I am interested in the final days of the project and what it took to pull it all together using C4 as the control system…

it might actually consider not thinking that C4 is much like what someone said it was, a “canned” system.

I wish the best of luck… Still don’t understand why this project is getting publicity…

I do these sort of systems on a regular basis, don’t take this long, nor have so many sub/integrators tasked with making decisions that aren’t all that hard to make…

cheers and kudos for being open minded to a public forum.

I mean no disrespect… I would give you a high five if i could… so here is a virtual high five…

If someone didn’t hear footsteps coming up fast behind them they wouldn’t have offered to supply a system for the same price just to keep Control4 out of the picture. 
This is only one job but the significance is that we are able to handle such a large project with multiple systems using C4.  Crestron is a great product but with new touch panel technology and so many 3rd party manufacturers stepping up with new products limiting yourself to one manufacturer is just that, limited.  I’m not saying pick up 4 or ten but look around for other products to support you main lines.  No one builds the best of everything.
The cost of my services were paid for in getting the client exactly what he needed and eliminating extras, my fee is a flat rate.  Engineering would have been a charge no matter who had the job.  While you and Bryan pat each other on the back, if all your “solutions” are just black boxes with the same name your are still limited in your offerings.  C4 is applying pressure today, tomorrow Netstreams,  NIRV and after that who knows, change comes every day to every business, keep looking over your shoulder.