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The Evolution of HDMI Long-Distance Applications
Running HDMI video over long distances has always been a challenge. That has not changed.
What have changed are the new products that, in many ways, have become technological Band-Aids in getting this job done. These products are designed and built in an effort to make these installations easier and more adaptive by way of Cat 5/6 or some coax alternative transmission products. That being said, the scores of folks out there are still having issues with these devices.
So are we just going to have to keep playing a problem-solving “Blame Game” on whom to point the finger, or should it be an “End Game” on how to fix it? DPL Labs still receives calls daily with HDMI long-distance problems.
Case in point, we received a call from an installer that ran a 50-foot Cat 5 system from point A to point B a year ago. Simple enough, but for some reason after a year of trouble-free viewing the video shuts down after 15 minutes. A system reset provided 15 more minutes of viewing. We replaced the ATD (balun) with a new one and gave it whirl … no change. Bypassed the ATD with a short HDMI cable and, as would be expected, the system performed flawlessly.
So do we have a “Blame Game” with a verifiable patch, or an “End Game” with a permanent fix? Up to this point it is a patch. If it were a fix, the system would be re-established to its 50-foot distance and functioning normally. Integrators don’t have the luxury of wasting time and money every time a system burps. There are many reasons why the balun failed, and space does not allow me to go into it in depth. My point is, here we are four years later and still dealing with these types of issues.
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Let’s add one more factor to this sea of variables - field termination. It’s no wonder we get these calls. At the end of the day, each installation is susceptible to the integrity of the ATD in combination with the selected cable and termination. I cannot stress enough the importance of keeping these performance levels as far above the bar as possible. It will diminish the risk of problems that may plague each and every installation.
If we supply some logic, deductive reasoning in this case, one can determine some pretty substantial conclusions with each problematic event. This is how each CE pro in the field gains the skill sets necessary to complete each job. No rocket science here - let’s use this 50-foot problem as an example.
If we know that this system fails after 15 minutes using an ATD and yet with a short HDMI cable the problem disappears, that essentially proves the system is functioning properly. The act of replacing the ATD with no improvement confirmed it had to be the cable … but then we replaced it with a new Cat 5 cable, and still no change. The most obvious next step would be to install an HDMI cable with some equalization. In 99 percent of these types of failures, the HDMI cable cured the problem.
Why?
Have any of you found any Cat 5/6 or coax cable product that has received an HDMI compliance approval? HDMI cables are transmission lines specifically designed to be immune to these problems by using the correct topology, material and shielded components. The HDMI cable distance limitation is equal to that of coax and Cat 5/6. Today’s HDMI cable electronic solutions are exceptional with controllable gains, clock recovery circuitry and robust bandwidths, not to mention great interference rejection. This is clearly an “End Game” option, should you want to go back to basics.
And if you would like the reason why the aforementioned ATD did fail, write to me and I will explain.
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14 Comments (displayed in order by date/time)
So why did it fail? Inquiring minds want to know!
Yeah, we want to know if they figured out why it failed. My guess is temperature/software update combination.
Anyways, I will do a bit of self promo here. Transparent has a solution that will run 65 feet without using baluns. it is compliant with all current and near future HDMI standards, and has proven very reliable now for several years.
http://www.transparentcable.com/products/show_product.php?recID=72&perfID=2&catID=3&modCAT=1
Hi to all our friends at CEPro. Keep up the great work
Brad
I want to know why it failed. Can you tell me?
I use ethernet with long distance 1080P runs and have no problems.
why not choose HDBase-T technology ? HDMI over HDBase-T, it can goes 300foot with very good stability and reliability, think about HDMI + Ethernet + IR + PoE over single Cat5e/6 cable, 300ft, amazing technololgy. HANK Electronics provide full series HDMI over HDBase-T products, 8x8, 4x4, 4x2 matrix, 1x8, 1x4 splitter, 1:1 extender, wallplate HDBase-T extender etc. http://www.hank-tech.com
You are talking just baluns correct? Not HD-base-T? We’ve had exceptional results with HD-Base-T with Crestron DM being the main go-to product.
not normal baluns, it’s HDBase-T baluns, also HDBase-T integrated into HDMI Matrix and splitters, which can maximly extend the transport distance of High Definition signal. more interest, please send email to .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Aren’t the cat5e/6 baluns certified by DPL?
@Christopher Duvall
I have several dealers using RainbowFish cables on a regular basis. They are incredibly reliable (I don’t thing I have processed one RMA yet for them!) and they are also VERY thin…you can tuck them under a baseboard!
One caveat though…the electronics built into the connectors need power…to power up the display side connector, they have a USB connector attached…since most flat panels have a USB to spare, this works great…but if you are using one for a projector or a TV that doesnt have USB, you will need a USB “wall wart” to power the cable.
Other than that one little issue, they are an OUTSTANDING solution, and they are often less expensive than the good HDBase-T baluns. Oh…did I mention that they will build custom lengths for you? Or that the maximum length is 1000 feet? Way longer than you can go with even a good Cat5 or cat6 adapter!
I, too, would like to know why it failed. It’s extremely disappointing to read an article that starts out with a reasonably detailed description of a problem, that is, facts, then, instead of an actual answer, derails into platitudes. The answer is eventually revealed to be an HDMI cable. Would that solve a five hundred foot transmission situation?
Was there a design requirement that HDMI be usable with simple existing equipment (RG6 comes to mind) over the long distances that the real world of high end installations demands? THAT is the problem! It’s gallow-humor amusing that HDMI works fine in the cheap small installations, but it’s touted as being the best for the best.
Maybe this will all just be a sorry memory when HDMI is replaced with something designed for the real world.
@John Nemesh
I was wondering if anyone would chime in on the fiber solution. Thank you, because I would really like to get a feel for everyone’s take. I’m a RF dealer, but not trying to promote them or solicit. There are a few other balun-type solutions (i.e. Broadata).
Personally, I think fiber is the next thing. I mean, it’s here, but I wonder if eventually it will replace category solutions. HDMI over fiber is not quite economical though at well over a dollar per foot. The interference resistance and possibilities are a little exciting though.
Anyone else have a take?
By the way, the “well over a dollar per foot” is talking specifically about HDMI over fiber “balun-like” solutions that I know of.
Chris
@Christopher Duvall
Well, if you can run new cable, the RainbowFish is a very attractive solution…if you are dealing with existing wire…you can find Cat5 and Cat6 all over the place…so it’s good to be able to offer reliable solutions to your customers for either application. The HDBaseT solutions from Transformative Engineering and Gefen have been extremely reliable as well for Cat5/Cat6 applications, up to 330 ft. For longer runs, though, fiber is the only way to go!
I have heard rumors that RainbowFish is currently working on refining their solution to work with standard “SC” terminated single-mode fiber. That would make pulling new cable a LOT easier and also would accommodate those jobs where fiber is already installed.
It is fairly problematic that you cannot take a cat5/6 solution to the bank, as it is the easiest way to do custom lengths.
What are your thoughts on HDMI over fiber. Either custom or using a solution like Raindbow Fish?
http://www.rainbowfishcorp.com/Fiber-Optic-HDMI-Pro.html
Chris