There is a HUGE Opportunity in our industry for what we refer to as ‘Rescue Work’ related to just this sort of situation.  Many (not all) of the so called high end control systems designs for homeowners that I have reviewed for SI Companies across the country do not cite any specific deliverable features, only parts, like -15” color matrix touch screen with web browser $15,000 (programming not included)- No defined features to justify the $13,500 premium over what a 15” laptop can do.

So how to market to this growing demographic?

Hmmm…

-Secure a domain like CEDIARESCUE.COM or HOME AUTOMATIONMAKEOVER.COM

-How about a full page ad in Robb Report or your local high society magazine with a system that looks like one of the CEPro NEAT-O!submissions ‘before’ photos with a headline ‘GOT THIS? - GET RIGHT’

-Buy a nice fully self contained RV out of a Mcmansion distress sale and outfit it for your technical Strike-Team to travel to sites for complete reinstall of systems with fully defined features already built-in.

TONS of opportunity out there with TONS of great products that have easy to deploy features that users want and will use.

No code required!

Go For It!

Sounds like the homeowner got taken for an expensive ride for an audio distribution system and nothing else. Also not the first time I have seen someone unloading a bunch of creston along with other high end equipment on craigslist.

Find it interesting though that a software engineer cannot figure out how to reconfigure his creston system to work for what his needs.

This is indicative, to me, of the long protectionist strategy of our industry.  Obviously the dissatisfaction with the Crestron system has to do with being over-sold and under-utilized.  But, the homeowners next move, into a DIY system, is what should be the wake-up call for us all. 

For years, we have traded on “intellectual property” of being the only ones who could piece together and install home audio and automation systems.  But, with the multitude of technology advances, this wears a little thin.  There is still plenty of room for us vendors/installers to operate, though.  The majority of people don’t want to do-it-themselves, even if they can.  By blocking out the DIYers, the industry loses the “early adopters” that drive technology revolutions.  Those are the people that “ordinary” people (95% of the population) look to.  Ordinary people say, if our geek friend isn’t doing it, we shouldn’t even consider it.

But, the equipment manufacturers keep protecting we installers/vendors from the DIYers.  We try to keep pulling revenue from existing customers who have already paid us plenty.  And then we wonder why the industry continues to languish with market penetration of less than 1%.

Enable the DIYers!  They will still call you to help them, but only for the interesting work.  They just won’t call you, mad at the inconvenience of needing someone else to add a channel to their remote control favorites.

“Find it interesting though that a software engineer cannot figure out how to reconfigure his creston system to work for what his needs”

Crestron does not make its programming s/w available to end users. You have to be a CAIP or dealer or be friends with a CAIP/dealer to have access. This issue was hotly debated on the Crestron Yahoo group a couple of years ago when Crestron closed its s/w downloads. Even when you could “freely” download, you had to click on a license agreement certifying that you were a dealer/CAIP; folks just ignored it.

Ross, right on.

Can you please shoot me an email with your contact info?

juliejacobson (at) comcast (dot) net.

thanks

Well stated Oldman. “Friends with a CAIP/dealer to have access”.

As a newbie into the business side of this industry and getting my start as a DIY, i have had to come to terms that some manufacturers are out of my reach and i have to contact friends in the industry to get help with products.

I also believe that the reason people are realizing that they can do it themselves is because they can and at half the price as longs as they have friends in the industry and are willing to get a little dirty. We are entering a time where the youth of today are passing some of us by and finding more creative ways to automate their homes with of the shelf products. Lost a sale on an integrated remote to the iphone. Still got the programming but not the hardware. It is up to us to offer the full package and not just a partial package to the customer. It is up to the customer to decide what they want.

Which is maybe all the guy wanted. But if that is it I dont think I would have given him a crestron unless i was just after the money.

Ross is right:

Empowered DIYers will drive the technology much farther and drive the general cost down

True professionals will flourish while the trunk slammers that have been giving us a bad name for a long time will only experience brief moments of success

This industry is standing on the brink of a major change, those that do not embrace it will be left in the dust

Cool idea kevinmikelonis, you should do that

I am the owner of the Crestron system in Charlton.

Jarret:  While I understand the Crestron system is capable of a lot more, I don’t have the time to invest in learning SIMPL.  With the software available today, I can automate my home with a small investment in hardware using the skills I already have.

Looking back, I am sure I was oversold the Crestron system.  A basic Russound audio distribution package, would have met my needs.

Editor’s Note: I received this note from a reader.

I just made a purchase on a 1 time used Niveus Rainier 750HD. This machine has HD DVD, and all the passive cooling features that Niveus Entertainment offers. I can upgrade the machine for $1500 so its blu-ray friendly. I get all the tech support from Niveus. This machine is great, the original purchaser was happier with a Tivo.

They paid over $6000 for the machine, something was wrong with the setup the customer had, but just to make sure the dealer sent it back to Niveus. I know this because before I made the purchase, I called and spoke to Niveus to make sure it was a real machine. I bought it from the couple for $2000. Literally in a factory sealed box. So it was like getting a new machine, for a savings of $4000-$5000, depending what the dealer sells it for.

Did I mention, the machine is amazing? 

Especially at that price. I don’t know many HTPCs built like this, that come even close.

The last line of my email, is not meant as a sales pitch. Honestly though, I would take the deal. Justin Wright (661-609-0645)

Oh yeah. I bought it off e-bay. Just did a search for Niveus. You can see completed listings for yourself.

If anyone’s interested, I’m willing to take $3,000. You could upgrade it and still get a machine below dealer cost.

And there you have it!  Thanks Charlton!  As you state..."With the software available today, I can automate my home with a small investment in hardware using the skills I already have.”

The dominant automation systems embraced by industry members have just seemed to me to be so far behind in their software platforms simply because it takes far too much effort to just get the products to work at all.

Software is vitally important, but so are simple things (which are rapidly disappearing) like DIP Switches for quick servcing of systems with failed components.

More intelligent products exist that require far less effort to deploy.  I just have to believe that the predominant players are moving in a direction that simplifies setup.  This may enable the DIY community, but that is not a threat.

I can detail my own car, but I choose to hire a PRO to do it.

I understand and I hope you can find someone to invest in your creston system. I would if I could but i am not a creston dealer and as with you do not have the time to invest nor do I have the money. 

There is a company in my area that maybe interested and I will forward your craiglist info to them. Will you ship out of state?

Sure Jarret, I would consider shipping out of state.  Understand though the two amplifiers are quite heavy.

good luck getting $8k for that crappy old system. Crestron is the McCain of automation systems at this point, you can take from that what you want.

we take out Crestron systems all the time, put the stuff on eBay for 1/8 cost retail and it barely sells.

meanwhile we set them up with Control4 and the home programming software to let them go to town with scheduling, lighting scenes, etc.

the time has come for Crestron to close up shop - particularly in this economy.

Well, if the Russound system would have worked for you why didn’t you buy one? Maybe you misquoted your needs to the dealer who then sold you an upgradeable and modular system with your best interest in mind. I am a Crestron dealer AND a Russound dealer and there are applications for both systems, but I’ll tell you a lot of clients pay more to jump on the Crestron train so that they later on upgrade the system. What advanced features to you want to implement? You know Crestron plays well with others… even Russound, so you could take the smart move and keep your gear which is extensible and powerful. You know, those amps are made by ATI… they are pretty killer. Did you think about quality? What speakers do you have? Those are not for sale. Did you buy them from the same dealer that sold you the Crestron equipment too? I think maybe before you claim the fault is the dealers for over selling to you, you should consider the fact that YOU over purchased. You had to pull the checkbook out yourself… and, if you were so unhappy why did it take you seven years to complain about it?

Michael, what happened to “The customer is always right”?
You do make some good points, but to lay blame on the customer is to presume they are knowledgeable and informed at the start of the purchase cycle.  I suspect that in owning the equipment for 7 years, this customer has learned a great deal. 

Customers count on the dealer to be the informed part of the team.  When that is not the case, then what value does the dealer really bring?  Oh yeah, the manufacturers won’t give the end users the tools or equipment, so you have to have a dealer.

Ross,

I understand that to be sure, but if I had an unhappy client and it was within my ability to make them happy, I would. Specifically in this instance if the client did not like what I put in I would figure out a way to get them what they want. I suppose we should do more research with the client/company before we can determine what actions should have been taken to avoid this issue (such as the company adhering to the adage you mentioned, or the client speaking up on his likes/dislikes).

I will say this though, when I work with a client I go through a revision process that can last months. At the end of that time, the client knows exactly what they are and are not getting. If indeed the company misrepresented the product, than they should be held liable. However if the customer agreed to the proposal after a proper revision was completed than shame on him for pulling out his wallet.

Incidentally I believe that the reasons Crestron programming software is restricted is to make sure that the end result to the client stays as high quality as possible… as in only having experienced integrators capable of properly installing the product.

And one more point. Seven years ago, what DIY stuff was really readily available for much cheaper that would handle 16 zones? It’s not like Radio Shack carried Multi Zone/Source distributed audio systems. Let’s look back through the years and see how much Russound’s systems were back then before we determine weather his Crestron system as a distributed audio platform only is ‘apples for apples’ the same as say a CAA66.

I wonder if he managed multiple quotes from different dealers…

At closer look, it seems that he has a ‘Lighting’ button and a ‘Security’ button on the CT-1000… what’s up with that?

“Looking back, I am sure I was oversold the Crestron system”. 

My quote is inaccurate, reading it again suggests I was not happy with the dealer for selling Crestron equipment to me.  I was/am not happy with the dealer, but my disappointment is not regarding the sale of the system.  It was the installation. 

I did purchase the system and I am happy with the system, if I can find the time to learn how to program the system and I can gain access to the tools necessary to program the system (without doing so illegally) I may consider doing so. 

Some of the more advanced features that I want to implement, include HVAC, Lighting, Security and Irrigation.  I realize these may not be considered advanced to most professional installers, but these are features I am interested for my house and I would be thrilled if I could do it myself, because I enjoy writing software.

I did buy the speakers from the same dealer, and the speakers are not for sale, because I do intend to use them.

One final thought...I am not sure I have complained about the system.  I was asked why I was selling the system, and I responded (without complaint).

The Lighting, Network and Security images on the CT-1000 are only images and do not have any behavior associated with them. 

Once the Music “Button” is pressed the user is presented with the Audio Distribution functionality.

Mr. Homeowner-

I am not sure I read this, but what DIY system are you planning on using? I read Russound would handle my Audio needs, but you also mention implementing HVAC, Lighting, Security, etc. What subsystems are you going to control? How are you going to control them? What level of control?

We are a Crestron dealer, as well as Control4 and others. I am not sure what level of DIY system you could install and have reliable operation of all the various subsystems. There are certainly other brands out there, but each one of them require software, require training, require some sort of knowledge of the system. If you truly want something you can buy a box, walk out the door and install yourself and program yourself, sure, Crestron is not the answer-but then, really none of the other systems really are also.

The word “proprietary” gets thrown out in this industry with reckless abandon, but there really isnt a system out there-for MULTIPLE reasons, that isn’t.

The systems are only as good as the installation and quality of the company installing it.

Hello,

I think that you are all reading too much into this.  Customers don’t buy systems they buy solutions and service.  A Crestron customer is one looking for the best in performance, and support from their dealer.  This type of product is not for everyone and shouldn’t be grouped into the same discussions as DIY products, Control 4, and Russound.  These customers who purchased these systems received the best of what was available then which is still better and compatible with what is available now.  Where was Control 4 then? Not in business yet. Where was Russound then?  Still selling the same CAV system available today which has hardly changed.

Back to the service and solution part of this.  These customers purchased a solution that they wanted 7 years ago, however either the dealer did not deliver on the service, or the customer has not been able to speak with someone who could educate them on ways to enhance their existing system and continue to grow their investment.  There is not a system out there today that is better than his Crestron system which DOESN’T require an integrator to be involved with.

Now to Crestron. You can pick on an industry leader all that you want, but if our industry try’s to focus on the DIY customer and not the custom integrator then we will continue to lessen the value of our industry, the products that are created, and the dealers.  Without the dealer selling high end solutions there would not be profit generated to continue to develop new technology.  Look at Plasmas, DVD’s, and every other category ever developed and it has continued to grow and advance because of quality manufactures pushing forward what was possible. 

I am sure that the DIY end users are reading this thinking that it is fun to tinker with this stuff, and you are just as smart as those who have built their lives around this industry.  Your not! Let us service you with the best performing products and customized solutions to fit your needs and to continue to educate and dazzle you with the newest technology when it becomes available.  If you want to tinker, than remember you are a hobbyist and what you do is not the same as those who specialize in high end solutions. Remember X10? Did that better our industry and advance technology? NO! Long live the high end integrator and the manufactures that support them!

G you make some very good points and are on the right track with this. This article is not about which manufacturer is better or worse. I am sure that if we search craiglist or ebay or any other similar website we will find not only customers but system integrator unloading high end equipment that they are not satisfied with or has outlived its life or has been ousted by a more econimical user friendly piece of equipment. According to the customer he was oversold on his system and he wants to sell it for something he can work with himself. This is a situation that is presented to us with every customer we meet. As our customers become more in tune with the technology that is presented to them they will want more to take it on themselves. It is up to us as the professionals to guide them into a system that will serve them for the time being as well as the future. It is also up to us to provide them with user friendly interfaces that if they choose they can work with themselves. 9 out of 10 of them presented with this would rather have us do the upgrades as they hired us for our knowledge and experience in the industry. This will only happen if the customer is satisfied with the job we preformed. The moral of the story is quit selling high end systems and doing a half a’ job on the integration. Give them what the solution and not a quick fix. And main thing is to keep up with them for the life of the system to make sure they are satisfied with what they have. Do your job as a professional of the industry!

homeowner,

trust me, get a control4 HC300, a Control4 multizone amp, add some wireless Control4 dimmers and thermstats and a new SR-250 handheld remote and you’ll be in heaven.

A dealer will install the stuff and set it up for you first, then you can buy Control4 Composer Home Edition to play around with lighting scenes, scheduled events, etc ---> you know, the kind of stuff you have to pay a Crestron programmer $200/hr for. Home Edition is light weight enough to be simple, but it puts the fun of the system right in your hands with a drag and drop interface.

Remember that Control4 is the most popular automation system in the world, and for good reason, it’s the most dynamic of the bunch at about a third of the cost.

So you won’t likely get $8k for your old Crestron bricks, but if you get $4k you’ll have enough to by the Control4 hardware I mentioned.

Wow Drew you seem to be the expert of the group. Please show me where it says anywhere that “Control 4 is the most popular automation system in the world”. They may pay the most advertising of any automation brand in the world, but they don’t sell more dollars, or jobs then many others out there. I am surprised that I have never heard of a Fortune 500 company, or a 20,000 sq ft home, or any other highend application using this wonder product.  I would think if it was the most popular in the world then it would be the best, and if it was the best then you would find it in the biggest and best projects out there.  The reality is that you don’t. Get out of your bubble and join the rest of us who sell quality and performance for a living.

I am the expert. Control4 is installed currently in Fortune 500 companies, homes larger than 20,000 sq/ft (if that is an important metric for you) and is going into the City Center Las Vegas as we speak. The old school systems are no longer relevant given the low-cost high quality competition. The worst part is that the hard core Crestron dealers are going to go down with the ship without taking the readily available lifeboats.

Building a control system with equipment that requires a separate programmer is no longer a viable solution for homeowners - they require changes on the fly, remember humans are living in these environments, they want changes to their programming. And yes, they may even request the ability to do it themselves.

The most recent sales records I’ve seen puts more controllers shipped by Control4 than any other control system. call your rep to get the details.

You may sell “quality and performance for a living” but it’s gonna be hard to justify equipment at 3 times the cost of a C4 controller that does the same thing - particularly in these economic times.