Gary Shapiro Debates Lou Dobbs: What a Fight!

Viva free trade!

To borrow a phrase from Al Franken, Lou Dobbs is a big fat idiot.

Lou Dobbs even made me look good on this one.

I think Jason Knott should take him on next.

That was pure cacophony. Nothing but a bunch of crosstalk and half-baked posturing on both sides. I weep for this country’s precipitous intellectual decline.

In your haste to pander to the chief (Gary Shapiro), you have lost your mind. You’re interpretation of the debate is incredible.  The out-sourcing, the debt owed, and current trade imbalances are destroying this country.  Open your eyes and stop fixating on just your “slice of the pie.”  When China imports American-made products, they tax at 25%.  When we import Chinese-made products, we tax at 2%.  How long do you think our economy can last with this imbalance?  Open your eyes!!! 

James Joseph

I agree that Shapiro won the debate, since Mr. Dobbs seemed to be in lecture/demagogue mode instead of trying to debate using statistics and facts to support his argument.  However, under these circumstances, I could have ‘won’ that debate with about 15 minutes of prep time, so I wouldn’t put that on my resume.

In the end, though, this nation is not in good financial health due to a number of debts that have been incurred, whether it’s trade, budget, or personal savings.  We need to work towards energy independence (a very tech thing if you ask me) and curtail the lending institutions so that people don’t literally mortgage away their future.

Also, free trade isn’t great if the deals suck for one end or the other.  I’m all for trade, as long as it benefits both sides in the agreement.  For example, CAFTA looks like it’s wonderful for us and sucks for just about everybody else.  Fair trade just makes good economic and geopolitical sense.

What? Shapiro knocked out no one. Did you even watch the interview or were you busy scurrying for brownie points from up the ladder?

While I am no big fan of Lou Dobbs, he consistently made a point, as did Shapiro. For Lou to ignor the fact that our exports are increasing is as blind a Shapiro thinking everything is as rosie as his the glasses he apparently looks through.

I’m stunned by your vapid description of claiming that Gary Shapiro won by a knockout.  Lou Dobb’s smugness aside, he clearly was able to defend his perspective.  I for one wish Gary had something substantial to say, other than to call Lou a protectionist and to virtually call him an isolationist.  Also, Gary is misinformed about how our goods are sold outside the U.S., and how difficult it is for Americans to buy / own property and have any economic rights in most countries of the world.  Further, the job loss / job creation numbers as well as the export import values have us upside down financially, as we all know, regardless of his pronouncements that"we’re growing faster” than any other country.
I am not a Lou fan, but he more than held his own.

Gary Shapiro is a clueless idiot. Lou Dobbs owned him in every aspect of his argument the only line Gary could muster is “free trade is good for this country” Shapiro’s stats were not even correct. Shapiro lacked the ability to even understand what and equal and reciprocal trade policy means.

This reminded me of a camel and a whale arguing about what was worse, all that sand or all that water.  Both may salient points, both went for the quick and cute sound bite and both used selected facts to support their argument.  Classic debate team 101.  But really, does anyone think we’ll ever get to “balanced trade” between countries.  I too studied economics and ever since one cave man had a bone and the other didn’t we’ve had imbalances of trade.  Not going to happen.  But should we give up on a notion of “fairer trade”?  I think not.  When Gary tries to say that the 800K jobs in the CE segment is great, he totally misses the millions that have disappeared.  Many before CEA even existed.  So here’s my proposal: instead of worrying about who whipped who in this debate, think about what the implications are to your company, your family, your community if you either (1) insist on unrealistic economic living standards in return for what you do [also known as being paid too much] or (2) don’t give a rat’s ass who makes your Flat Screen TV as long as you can get it at WalMart for $500.  And for that matter, what the hell’s wrong with the one you have now?  And where are the used parts going to go?  We’d be better off to focus on environmental impact - economics will follow.  Ooops…did I just let out the secret?  Must have, after all WalMart isn’t investing in green technologies to save the planet, they’re doing it because if they reduce energy costs by 30% that goes straight to the bottom line.  Huh.

Sorry….may = made What can I say, I’m not a magician Jim, just a simple country doctor.

$500 flat screen? Sounds like a Vizio.

Go Lou!!!
I think Lou should run for President.  Maybe then we would get out of this mess perpetrated by the likes of Gary Shapiro, corporate America, and our pitiful excuse for a President…Dubya.

No big fan of Dobbs, but he was not “knocked out” by Shapiro in this conversation.

I’m not sure how in practicality one could achieve the balanced and reciprocal trade agreements Dobbs theorizes, but in principle, it it highly sensible.

A low-brow analogy would be two competing sports teams, each one beholden to different rules governing the same game.  The problem is the longer we wait, the longer we become dependent upon foreign sources for various goods and services, with a reduced or dismantled infrastructure unable to support the necessary bravado of such a stand.

Free trade is vital, but it simply needs to be free in both directions - import restrictions set forth by either side should either be eliminated, or proportionally matched. Until we are one earthly nation, with one set of laws, once currency, and worldwide political representation, we are not yet a one-economy world, despite all the globalization.

Jason Knott must of watched a different debate than I did. The one I saw showed Lou Dobbs making an ass of someone who seems to know very little of the real world. Gary Shapiro must be a republican. They usually have a warped view of the real world.

Lou didn’t get knocked out by anyone. Mr. Shapiro stated that ‘Facts’ aren’t debatable. So there is the fact of a 6 trillion and growing deficit. There is a fact of a quickly eroding middle class.

Mr. Shapiro made points of Thiel and Mitac. Is he stipulating that these companies WOULDN’t be in business if it wasn’t for free trade?

All Gary was doing is saying ‘look at all the pretty statistics I brought with me’ I am not sure what point he was trying to make. It wasn’t proof that ‘free trade’ is working, it was just proof that some companies still export electronics. You can usually find any exception to any argument. From what I saw, that is all he did.

There may be 25 million jobs, but are the really “new”? Plus I have a friend that has 3 of the 25 million. With the way the economy is going, others may need an extra of the 25 million too.

Mark totally nailed this in his comment above. Kudos.

Lou Dobbs laments that we rely on China for 80% of our computers. Is he crying about the low, low cost of computers that allows more American households to own them? Would he be happier if we patronized only U.S. makers of PCs and paid twice the price for the machines? There would be no surer way to keep poor families poor, and to eliminate PCs from public schools.

Lou Dobbs is a populist blow hard and certainly does not demonstrate that he’s a Harvard Econ grad.
Econ 201 teaches us that trade barriers only hurt the country that erects them—even if one of the trading partners has fewer barriers. Trade barriers force the residents of the barrier country to pay more for goods and services and shields local firms from competition which stifles innovation.
Lou and many others whine about the loss of textile (clothing) manufacturing jobs. Let’s also add to the list of lost manufacturing jobs to cry over with Lou: typewriters, buggy whips, 8-track players, full service gasoline, ox plows, and Barbara Streisand records.
People worry too much about trade deficits. In exchange for ipods, cell phones, flat screen tv’s, and oil, we are trading pieces of paper (read: money) or promises to give out pieces of paper at a future date; it’s really a great deal when you think about it.

Also: give me a break about the “dwindling middle class”, this a red hearing argument. Your average family below the supposed poverty level in this country likely has: a roof over their head, access to more than 2000 calories/day/person to food, cable TV, a phone, a cell phone, and designer/name brand clothing. Compare this to the poor of say China, India, or even the poor in the US 30 years ago.
The success of free trade has raised the living standard for everyone in the US along with many others around the world.