Fixing a No-Excuse HDMI Failure

What Blu-ray player was it? Do we know that the receiver input loading also did not play a factor? If it did, what receiver was it?

The makes and models would be really helpful considering the implications.

How is a dealer able to “do their due diligence in selecting products” without any effective and affordable HDMI test gear available? Are we just supposed to plug every potential new product into every other existing product to make sure they play nice every time we want to sell something new?

It would be great if there was a way for dealers to actually test these things in the field without needing $100k or even $10k worth of test equipment. If problems like these could be easily rooted out with a test adapter and a Fluke DMM, some of the mystique (and frustration) of HDMI may begin to fade.

Jason Brown
http://www.asktheadvisors.com

My question is how does the Bluray get an HDMI endorsement without passing spec?! I suppose like everything else you pay for a label and don’t have to meet any specs other than have an HDMI output! Well at least now we know!

A little birdie told me it may be the new Sony BluRay Changer.

Michael - that’s possible, although we have installed that changer in systems with HDMI switchers and receivers and long cable runs without an issue. So, either it’s OK or it is weak and the other cables and electronics are good enough to make up for it (unlike the ones used by the subject of the article).

@Michael Healy - first of all, there’s more than one model from Sony. Second of all, we’re adults here, so if you have factual information to share, please do. Otherwise, save the kid’s stuff for the playground.

We have installed several of the ES series Blu-ray changers without problems, and more than one were in non-standard installations with very long cables or extenders or DAs.

@ Mr. Boccacio, just like anything, one instance does not make a trend. Did the dealer try to swap the malfunctioning piece with a new unit of the same model? Did the manufacturer provide a replacement that worked? What was the ultimate solution? A little more detail would be kindly appreciated.

Jason Brown
http://www.asktheadvisors.com

Easy, Easy… My post was based on experience from a recent project.  I would never post negatively on a product without hours and hours of through troubleshooting.  I’m not definite that this is the exact problem Jeff is referring to but it sounds similar to a problem I encountered and troubleshot with him about a month ago.

The Sony BluRay Changer was the BDP-CX7000ES for $1900.00.  The receivers were a Yamaha RX-1600 (1 Existing) and a Denon AVR-2310ci (3 New).  The BluRay ran HDMI into a Atlona 1X4 HDMI Switch, from that switch we distributed it to 4 receivers through HDMI over UTP transmitters/receivers.  We also had a satellite receiver, cable box and Apple TV as sources.  Of course all of the other sources were distributed fine including the Apple TV at 1080p/60.  The displays were a mix of Pioneer Elite 1080P Plasmas and LG LCD’s.  We tested all of the UTP with a Fluke Category 5E LAN Tester, all passed.  We tried different UTP transmitters/receivers (even though Jeff told me it was not worth my time), he was right.  The Gefen’s, Audio Authority or Binary UTP Transmitters did not perform any different than the Spectrum Electronics ones. We could not get 1080p/24 out to the TV’s. Finally, we took a LG BluRay Player into the same input that the Sony was using and success, 1080p/24 to all of the displays. This tells me that the UTP Transmitters are working fine.  It sounds like the Sony BDP-CX7000ES has the issue.

I spoke with 2 other Control4 dealers that have had similar problems when trying to distribute this BluRay player using UTP transmitters/receivers.  We haven’t found a final solution yet, luckily the client is being patient with 1080i from his BluRay Changer.

Just my experience, I too do not have 100K in HDMI test gear, but hopefully other dealers can learn from this as the manufacturer’s use us as HDMI guinea pigs!

Well we have successfully distributed the same 7000ES player using the Gefen EXT-HDMI1.3-142D distribution amp feeding a local Classe SSP-800 and also a Gefen EXT-HDMI-5BNC extender which went to a second SSP-800 in another room. We have successfully extended it two other times using the same Gefen EXT-HDMI-5BNC. We typically run the coax solution instead of UTP because we’ve had such trouble with all of them except Crestron, though it sounds like your issue is not related to the extender.

Curious that you had bad luck. Did you try swapping the player with another Sony 7000ES?

Jason Brown
http://www.asktheadvisors.com

We haven’t tried that but given your success, I think we may need to.  We were up in the air considering it works fine with a 3M HDMI cable but maybe the signal is weak but just good enough to work. 

Thanks for the input.

Another common problem when using a device between the source and the display is 5v loop back.  Per HDMI spec this should be diode blocked but many displays do not (regardless of cost) while almost all source players do.  This 5v loop back through the display will cause a latch up condition in UTP extenders and some other devices with integrated HDMI switching.  Less common now than in circa 2008 players is the lack of support for clock stretching which tells the player to wait for a handshake with the display via a clock line inhibit.  Normally not a problem when directly connected, but once you insert an extender or switch (AVR) it becomes a crap shoot to complete an initial handshake.  I don’t know why the market hasn’t responded to the needs of field techs regarding affordable test gear for these types of failures.

From the Manufacturers Testing Policies at HDMI.org:
“The HDMI Compliance Test Specification represents the minimum compliance testing required for Licensed Products. Successful completion of the Compliance Test Specification or ATC Testing does not guarantee that any product will conform to the High-Definition Multimedia Interfaces, function correctly or interoperate with any other product. Each Adopter is solely responsible for ensuring that its products function correctly, fully comply with the HDMI Specification and Adopter Agreement, and interoperate with other products. “
Where’s the HDMI cops when you need them?
Sounds to me like CEDIA needs to get involved.

So, the focus of our company is RELIABILITY.  HDMI has proven UN-reliable in the field for us.  As we are forced into this protocol, I would like to chime in with those who posted here.  Where is our test, compliance and calibration tools?  And where is the compliance enforced?  The kind folks over at HDMI.org like to defend their brainchild by attempting to draw a parallel with USB.  The problem is that USB is reliable.  Practically, it breaks down to carrying alot of gear on every job.  Never knowing where the little HDMI monster will pop-up from job to job.  The ridiculous thing here is that these are all manufactured parts and pieces. Save UTP terminations in the field (which are easily verifiable) we really don’t have many choices to “fix” an HDMI install.  We just start swapping gear in hopes of acceptability.  This is the most frustrating part for us.  No two “repairs” seem to be alike or seem to share the same set of constraints or characteristics.  I am lead optimist when troubleshooting any system failure, incongruences and anomalies which is why I suppose this troubles me so.