A/V Company Proves to Clients: You Can’t Get a Better Deal Online

I have no problem with an article that discusses how custom installers can differentiate themselves by talking about the services they offer and how those services can be well worth the price that the consumer is going to pay. In many cases, that is probably 100% true.

To an uninformed consumer, purchasing any expensive product over the internet can be a dangerous proposition. For this type of consumer, quality brick and mortar stores and custom installers bring a great deal of value.

However, to an informed consumer who does their own research, the service and knowledge that you are going to get from a custom installer is often not worth the money, particularly, when compared against the savings that you can frequently get through fully authorized, competently staffed internet/mail order outlets.

The problem I have with the article is the obvious bias that Audio Video Planners has demonstrated in the choice of the 4 internet retailers. I would like to see the same article written along with transcripts if your readers were to select the internet retailers.

Mark, the four vendors are precisely the ones that the client selected. The client listened in as AVP called each one.

Yes, for DIYers or those who might not care about an optimal A/V experience, why not explore the Internet?

In this case, though, AVP opened the eyes of a customer that didn’t meet either criteria.

Sure you can do your own firmware update on a Blu-ray player, but to the unitiated ... how would they do that?

I think a lot of people are confused - this customer wasn’t buying one product, or even a single television with Blu-ray player.  He was trying to buy a complete integrated system, presumably including control, setup, installation, delivery, and expert design.  However, the internet price only reflected product and price, not the other factors.

Yes, you can find most products for less on the internet.  I’ve done it myself.  But an integrated system cannot be purchased online. 

Most people can’t even program their own Harmony remote, much less troubleshoot HDMI issues or apply a Blu-ray firmware update.  That is the value of the custom integrator, and it’s a value an online seller cannot match.  Value is not purely a function of price…value is the quality of the good you purchase combined with price.  A proper installation is part of value, and most consumers aren’t equipped to provide that service alone.

Granted, setup an installation is NOT valuable to some customers, who wish to do it themselves.  But to compare an internet reseller and a CI on price only is to totally misunderstand the service a CI provides, and shows the ignorance of a customer who will inevitably be calling that same CI two weeks later to fix what the consumer installed.

Julie,

I think to say that DIYers have less than optimal setups is a disservice to your magazine’s image.

The fact is that I have met many custom installers who want top dollar for basic installs. 

Sorry but hanging a projector with a trigger activated screen is not rocket science.  Its amazing the number of devices available to the general consumers, that can make a DIY project look like a highend install.

I am not saying everyone should attempt to DIY, but I have received more compliments on my DIY home theater than on my high priced kitchen that I hired some rat ####### contactor to do.

To suggest that any contractor is always a better option than DIY is out of line.

CaW—

To clarify, I said for DIYers or those who might not care about an optimal A/V experience, why not explore the Internet?

Did not imply at all that DIYers don’t crave an optimal experience. In fact many of them want exactly that and have the skills and passion to create it.

There is ALSO a category of people who don’t need the absolute best A/V, the simplest controls, etc. The internet may work for them.

Thank you CE Pro for this insight. As a distributor I am constantly being asked the same questions that my Custom dealers are being asked. My response is always the same: “Sure, you can buy that online cheaper, but why would you? What happens after the sale? Is the online seller going to go to bat for you when you have a problem? I don’t think so.” Service after the sale comes with a price tag. How much that premium is will be in direct proportion to the level of service. And if you are good at cultivating a relationship you will get that business. Don’t back down!

It’s interesting to hear about all these experiences.  As a small local CE integrator, we just sell displays at cost and charge for the installation and management in our labor side.  The client is required to buy additional warranty which we include in the cost of the display.
The real problem here is not the vendors or the customers (end users).  The source of this problem is the manufacturers who sell really cheap to resellers that can buy huge volume.  That’s their game.  They don’t care about the little guys so we don’t care about them.  We don’t sell TV’s, we sell displays that come with an integrated system designed just for the client.  If they want to buy that display online and own the risk, receive it, handle any warranty…that’s fine with us.  We don’t make any money on them anyway.

Wow!  What a flame war this article started.

  First off, Julie, nice article full of great insight.  Well done. 
  Second, I am a do it yourself type person and I have many friends in the A/V industry so I’ve seen both sides of this argument…on MANY occasions.  Its obviously true that you can find many home electronic products online at great prices.  I can also buy a box of cheap steaks online…they may be good…they may be bad.  I can easily change the oil or brakes in my car, or I could take it to a dealer or mechanic because they know more about it than I do, and may, (or may not) do a better job than I.  Why do I go to restaurant when I could (attempt) to make the same thing at home for cheaper?  Because some things I just can’t do as well as a professional…there, I said it!
  I guess the point I’m trying to make is that I’ve purchased many things over the internet over the years and had mostly good experiences…but a few of those times looking back I would’ve been better off swallowing my DIY pride and had a professional help.  The times I’ve done that, I’ve always ended up with a working product, and more importantly, someone who would be there to help me with it should something go wrong.
  DIY if you want…as I often do…just don’t tear down those who can’t and seek help.  Not all of us are professionals at everything.  We all need help sometimes…

To all of those who complain about pricing locally, let me help you understand the age-old rule of the bartering system - YOU ALMOST ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. One-off small items such as a display or a Blu-Ray player, perhaps not such a big deal, it’s hard to go wrong unless the store IS a little sketchy or you didn’t read the fine print. But really, what do you usally end up saving, $20, $30? Personally, there are just some items I’d rather buy locally - it’s just not worth it. And why not support someone who I know and trust to support me as a return customer? I know they’ve been around for years, they’ll stand behind their product, sometime help me even though my purchase is past warranty, and hey - I can be pretty confident that judging from my history with them that they won’t be closing their website er, store tomorrow…
Over the years as a custom integrator, we’ve been competing with the internet on pricing and learning that sometimes we simply have to work with what we’re given. If a client finds a better price than we’re capable of giving them, by all means, I tell them to purchase it. If I can match it or beat it without losing my shirt, I often do. BUT - I can honestly say that 60% of the time, the client doesn’t end up saving a single dime, or things just simply go sideways.
Why? Because we didn’t sell the product to them. When the product fails or is an incompatible model that the client “thought was the same thing as the one quoted”, how can we possibly be expected to support that product? What happens when that purchase turns out to be a “lemon” that takes out several expensive components along with it, ones that WEREN’T purchased from that online retailer? Now it’s in the client’s hands to deal with; not to say that we won’t do what we can to help, but now the entire job is often held up because of one faulty component that has to be shipped off to some online seller in hopes of getting a replacement, meanwhile, we could very well have had one in stock locally that could have been replaced the same or next day; or in the case of an item that needs to be returned for repair, a loaner could have been provided. If we quoted, supplied and installed a product, we expect to stand behind it when something goes wrong. We expect to deal with replacing failed items and the labour involved at our expense when it’s OUR product (hardware or otherwise) that we’ve supplied. Will an online store do that for you? Will the online store set your system/products up for you, providing years of experience to help you understand what you’re buying and how to get the best performance out of the product(s) that you spent your hard-earned money on? Will an online store use their experience to provide you with a top-notch quality installation? Will an online store show up to troubleshoot why your system isn’t switching to the correct inputs or the sound isn’t working because your brother-in-law thought your system would be a great way to show you how much he knows about electronics?
Just to clarify, I’m not saying there aren’t some shady local dealers and installers out there - they’re an unfortunate fact of our industry due to lack of regulation - some overcharging clients beyond belief, others doing work that’s so far below industry standards that they shouldn’t be in business. But, at least you have the opportunity to meet them face to face, THEN decide whether or not they’re good for their word - and choose who you want to deal with. Online purchases? It’s almost always a roll of the dice, I don’t care what big internet names you throw around. As for “white glove” service? Read the fine print CAREFULLY, it’s not always “white glove” as advertised.
Still think we’re gonna consistently match prices of those who do nothing more than play a middle-man and probably never even see the product come through their own doors? Not a chance.

Some of your arguments defending the shop are moot, because the article states that it revolves around a 65 inch plasma TV purchase,  not a complete entertainment set.  So all that talk about paying for someone to set it up etc., doesn’t apply here. What the guy in the article was doing was just purchasing a 65 inch plasma TV, and then made a single inquiry about a blu-ray player.  Nothing was said about a complete set up or anything….. 

Why not buy your equipment online and then pay a shop to come in and install it for you if installation is to be a problem?  Probably still save money since the equipment was cheaper anyways.

It is sorely obvious that this guy did this to essentially advertise for local shops/brick and mortar shops and try to deter individuals from purchasing online.  And contacting an ebay powerseller?  Who in their right mind buys large electronic items through EBAY? 

I am positive that many brick and mortar shops have lost customers due to cheaper prices online.  Just check out Amazon and NewEgg.  Their pricing, no tax, free shipping in many instances destroys the price of competing brick and mortar stores.  In addition, unlike EBay which you can hardly count as an online vendor, Amazon has a refund policy, which does NOT cost you an additional $500 to ship back and forth, etc.

This article is very misleading overall.  It IS cheaper to buy online.  Period.  Whether or not it is worth it could be a different story.  But you can’t argue that it is actually cheaper when you end up paying more at these brick-and-mortar stores instead.  $1500 will always be more than $1400.  You may get more in terms of service from these shops, but you PAY more for that.

So in the end, no, buying online is NOT more expensive regardless of how you spin it.  From a purely financial aspect, it costs less.

And to address what someone else said about not being able to see the product yourself before you buy….well I can easily stroll into Best Buy or some other TV shop and look at the display and write down the model number.  Then go home, and purchase it online for cheaper if I like what I see in the store.  No longer relying on random testimonials, but my own in that scenario. 

If you buy from a reputable online store, you’re generally fine.  And the fact that they are reputable tends to mean that they have some sort of warrant/replacement program in place, and their prices are so cheap that even if it does cost you $100 to ship it back, your net cost is still much less than if you bought from a brick and mortar store.

A few comments, this was a educational process for all, including ourselves as well our 60 plus year old client that has never purchased this level of electronics and the only thing they could come back to is what they understand, Price.
This is someone that has teenage children that understand the internet, pricing, and they drink the Apple kool-aid. I am sure they were helping the parents in the process. So, they were not in the dark completely, they did understand why and when it was time to get a professional involved. The client spent slightly over 80k on whole house automation, HD matrix switching, distributed audio, and a home theater that did include the 65” Plasma, Blu-ray and more…in a townhome. We were successful on overcoming the client buying on price only, and did create value in this CEPro’s offering of integration, on-going support, and Yes, competitive pricing!

As a custom integrator, it is in my humble opinion that you don’t always get what you pay for.  Sometimes buying online is a deal, sometimes you think your getting a deal & you’re getting ripped off.  Like in every other area of life, from doctors to politicians. I simply say: go ahead Mr. Consumer, shop my prices anywhere you want.  But, compare apples for apples.  If my service is worth the extra few bucks then, hopefully I’ve earned your business.

To the Manufacturers that act like they support small custom integrators like us, I am calling you out on your endless BS.  I’ve seen the deals manufactures make with “unauthorized” dealers.  And, at least competing with “unauthorized” is something we can handle.  It’s the “Authorized” big guys that you just can’t compete with.  The online guys who are “legitimate” like AMAZON (see cepro article), tiger, b&h;, Costco (the toughest competitor, how do you have anything bad to say about a company that will take back anything for any reason?).

It makes me not want to shop at my own store sometimes.  I pay $1040 for a TV that (if I get MSRP) I sell for $1149-$1199. So, I wonder how a “no name” online “scammer” can sell a TV for less then I pay when they are supposedly not even allowed to buy it…

When Manufacturers are legitimate, then everyone can be competitive.

as a matter of fact, it’s probably time for us to adapt to our successful competitions methods.  We will start to offer products online, except with our product knowledge and “local b&m;” level of service.  After all, you can’t say best buy and those guys are in our same level.  Every time you turn around, some kid who lives at home with his mom is selling you a DIRECTV HD DVR for your Non HD Television in your mother-in-laws bedroom (I’ve seen it happen).

I had to pass on this “quality” solicitation I received today from an online seller offering “electronical” products.

hi:
Heya, how are you doing recently ?
I would like to introduce you a very good company which I knew. Their company homepage is http://www.ele-zone.com . They can offer you all kinds of electronical products which you need, such as motorcycles, laptops, mobile phones, digial cameras, TV LCD,xbox, ps3, gps, MP3/4, etc. Please take some time to have a look at it, there must be something you ‘d like to purchase.

Motorcycles, eh?  How can I refuse?

The ultimate thing is that no one (except for a certain few) seems to understand that there is a HUGE difference between a custom integrator or even a Best Buy and an on-line company.  Retailers and custom integrators have so much more overhead, and liabilities and added expenses that that dictates what price they can charge and at least break even.  You cannot compare what these custom integrators do compared at a random warehouse that has no overhead, that just throws electronics on a truck and ships it to you. Are getting a cheaper price? Sure you are… BUT, you get so much more from an actual company that cares about the customer and will bend over backwards to make sure that you are happy and make sure that you tell your family and friends how amazing this custom integrator was to ensure your happiness.  Isn’t that worth a little extra? Now to all the DIY’ers, no problem, go buy whatever you want on-line… But don’t take my proposal that i spent 7-8 hours on making sure that everything is perfect and set up to maximize your enjoyment and buy everything from the internet, that is a slap in the face…